# Antifa terrorist attacks ICE detention center, gets killed **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 14, 2019, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053 "2019-07-14T03:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/101 "2019-07-15T12:54:30Z")
They aren’t so much defending him, as trying to change the subject. Understandably so - this guy doesn’t help their narrative. Therefore, obfuscate until the media attention dies away, and then go back to blaming everything on Trump. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/102 "2019-07-15T12:54:45Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How many people do you think are mourning him? As it happens, I know one. This mourner is a friend of mine from high school. He is on the short list of the most outgoing and benevolent people I have met. He is the kind of guy who would literally give you his shirt off of his back. His selflessness is part of what drove him to specialize in early childhood education, a field that of course men are not encouraged to join. This weekend, this person shared a heartfelt note about what the deceased meant to him, and it was moving. It was clear that the deceased had done some thoughtful, caring things in his lifetime – I’d rather not invade others’ privacy to post further details. My friend deeply regretted that this person turned violent, and questioned how and why anyone would try to murder others in cold blood in order to promote a cause that, at its core, is about humanitarianism and treating every human with dignity and respect. Dignity and respect – think about that for a second. As I look through this thread, I see a bunch of people so consumed by politics that they can’t for a minute remember their humanity and afford strangers a basic level of dignity and respect that all moral codes impress upon each of us to carry out. That goes for the dignity and respect owed to the migrants, this attacker who clearly had some radical break to embrace inexcusable violence, and even those law enforcement officers who were left with no choice but to take another’s life and must now carry that burden. Shame on the lot of you. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/103 "2019-07-15T13:17:06Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > As it happens, I know one. > > This mourner is a friend of mine from high school. He is on the short list of the most outgoing and benevolent people I have met. He is the kind of guy who would literally give you his shirt off of his back. His selflessness is part of what drove him to specialize in early childhood education, a field that of course men are not encouraged to join. > > This weekend, this person shared a heartfelt note about what the deceased meant to him, and it was moving. It was clear that the deceased had done some thoughtful, caring things in his lifetime – I’d rather not invade others’ privacy to post further details. > > My friend deeply regretted that this person turned violent, and questioned how and why anyone would try to murder others in cold blood in order to promote a cause that, at its core, is about humanitarianism and treating every human with dignity and respect. > > Dignity and respect – think about that for a second. > > As I look through this thread, I see a bunch of people so consumed by politics that they can’t for a minute remember their humanity and afford strangers a basic level of dignity and respect that all moral codes impress upon each of us to carry out. That goes for the dignity and respect owed to the migrants, this attacker who clearly had some radical break to embrace inexcusable violence, and even those law enforcement officers who were left with no choice but to take another’s life and must now carry that burden. > > Shame on the lot of you. That’s misdirected. The people who should be ashamed are those who encourage desperate individuals to break US law for long term, political gain. Some shame also needs to be directed at the ineptness of the current administration. However, when has American law enforcement ever been pleasant or kind? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/104 "2019-07-15T14:23:21Z")
How do you know they were leftists? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/105 "2019-07-15T14:36:50Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > That’s misdirected. The people who should be ashamed are those who encourage desperate individuals to break US law for long term, political gain. Some shame also needs to be directed at the ineptness of the current administration. However, when has American law enforcement ever been pleasant or kind? I think there is plenty of politics in this thread seeking to use this tragedy to score some point or another against the other side, as if that makes any difference to anyone. I include your post in that assessment. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/106 "2019-07-15T16:27:07Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Shame on the lot of you. I don’t mourn abusers. Shame on you for thinking I should. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/107 "2019-07-15T16:58:01Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Hold up. HurricaneDitka, I just want to be clear. You’ve accepted as a standard of proof of a crime that someone has **denied** committing the crime? You don’t even have to hear the victim accuse them of a crime, you just have to hear that they have denied an accusation, and you accept that they’re guilty of whatever they’ve denied? > > Is this something you accept for all crimes, or just crimes supposedly committed by leftists? Huh? I didn’t hear that the dead guy “has **denied** committing the crime”. Did he do that? If so, where? **Derleth** said “The shithead was a wife-beater” and linked to an IndieGoGo page by his daughter which said “I can’t imagine what prompted Shelley to take such dramatic action, but Will has never, ever been threatening or violent in the entire time I’ve been alive.” At the very least, that latter claim is now outdated, given recent events (and really, was outdated by the time he assaulted a police officer last year). Furthermore, while it seems that there is a fair bit that she didn’t know / “can’t imagine” about her father, none of that is the accused himself denying anything. It’s his unimaginative daughter making the denial, and one that we know is not accurate (or at least no longer accurate). ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/108 "2019-07-15T16:59:15Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > The people who should be ashamed are those who encourage desperate individuals to break US law for long term, political gain. So, Trump, Pence, McConnell, Kavanaugh, Nunes, et al…? Im a wait right here for those asshats to show shame. As for the dead guy, they are saying that he was trying to disable buses in a parking lot across the street with his devices, not hurt people. He was doing that because it was the weakest link to shipping more people into the center. He died. He died doing what he believed would help people in the long run. He damaged property, not people, and he died for his beliefs. Honestly, the only shame I feel about this is that our system of representative government is so broken that people can become this desperate to stop the rampant spread of the Trump NAZI Party. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/109 "2019-07-15T17:00:40Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Exactly, if he answers “yes” then by his own logic he is also Antifa since he is anti-fascist, if he answers “no” then he’s pro-fascist. Yes, this is the answer. Seems strange to me that someone could be so mixed up that they cannot say “Yes, I’m against fascism” Weird. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/110 "2019-07-15T17:09:21Z")
> [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](#): > > … As for the dead guy, they are saying that he was trying to disable buses in a parking lot across the street with his devices, not hurt people. He was doing that because it was the weakest link to shipping more people into the center. … So why did he bring a rifle? According to some of his adoring fans: > [@](#): > > … [He successfully set one vehicle on fire and then exchanged gunfire with Tacoma police officers](https://anarchistnews.org/content/we-are-fire-will-melt-ice-%E2%80%93-rest-power-will-van-spronsen-olympia-wa) … Do you consider exchanging gunfire with the police to be the actions of someone who was trying to “not hurt people”? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/111 "2019-07-15T17:29:25Z")
From the article in the OP: > [@](#): > > it is unclear who fired first or if Van Spronsen fired at all. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/112 "2019-07-15T17:54:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > So why did he bring a rifle? According to some of his adoring fans: > > Do you consider exchanging gunfire with the police to be the actions of someone who was trying to “not hurt people”? Perhaps he was using his 2nd Amendments rights to combat tyranny? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/113 "2019-07-15T18:09:22Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Perhaps he was using his 2nd Amendments rights to combat tyranny? Do you think the Tacoma PD are tyrants? Because that’s who he was combatting. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/114 "2019-07-15T18:25:50Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think the Tacoma PD are tyrants? Because that’s who he was combatting. Wasn’t McVeigh fighting back against a tyrannical government? ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/115 "2019-07-15T18:41:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think the Tacoma PD are tyrants? Because that’s who he was combatting. I refuse to answer such a vague and nebulous question. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/116 "2019-07-15T19:19:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > I refuse to answer such a vague and nebulous question. Do you think they’re fascists? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/117 "2019-07-15T19:22:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Do you think they’re fascists? > > Regards, > Shodan Who is “they”? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/118 "2019-07-15T20:03:06Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Perhaps he was using his 2nd Amendments rights to combat tyranny? Yes, absolutely that’s what he was doing. I don’t condone it at all. But clearly this guy was trying to strike back at a tyrannical government, exactly as the Second Amendment fundamentalists believe is reasonable and appropriate (if you’re conservative). > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think the Tacoma PD are tyrants? Because that’s who he was combatting. Were they defending the internment center? Then yes, they are aiding and abetting tyranny and, as I understand the logic of Second Amendment fundamentalism, they are legitimate targets. Right? NB: I am not defending the attacker. I’m saying if you’re one of the right’s “Second Amendment people”, you should be defending him, or you’re just proving that you think guns are just for conservatives to enforce a racist authoritarian order. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/119 "2019-07-15T20:16:19Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Who is “they”? The Tacoma Police Department. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/120 "2019-07-15T20:17:53Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The Tacoma Police Department. > > Regards, > Shodan I personally don’t, no. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053.md?page=7)