# Antifa terrorist attacks ICE detention center, gets killed **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 14, 2019, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053 "2019-07-14T03:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/141 "2019-07-16T15:55:58Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Can you define what you mean by “fascism”? > > Regards, > Shodan What difference does MY definition of fascism make? Use your own definition of “fascism” and state whether or not you are against it. If for some reason you do not know the definition of fascism, try this one: > [@](#): > > a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition from the online version of Merriam-Webster. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/142 "2019-07-16T16:08:17Z")
I’m amazed that there hasn’t been a lot more violence. When you imprison people’s children, they tend to get very, VERY upset. It’s kind of strange, though. Since, according to Trump, all these illegals are criminals and the lowest form of human life, you’d think attacks against ICE would be a constant ongoing affair. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/143 "2019-07-16T16:22:28Z")
No kidding, **Jasmine**! I’d think the tens of millions of illegal immigrants that Trump keeps telling us are in the country already would have mounted a visible attack by now to free more people for their army! ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/144 "2019-07-16T16:45:23Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > of course not. A President is responsible for the security and well-being of his country and that includes the borders. This was not an issue with previous presidents but suddenly it’s an issue. Nothing has changed except the party affiliation of the President. If you truly believe this in spite of all the evidence you have been shown that not only is this different, but that the administration has advertised and bragged about how it is different, then there is no reaching you through your willful veil of ignorance. > [@](#): > > It wasn’t an attempt. What you said was flat out hateful racist bullshit. It was offensive. Yes, I see now that you have fallen for the Trump school of racist thought, that actions based on discrimination are not racism, but pointing them out are. This school of thought is really only in vogue with the racists these days, as a way of trying to shut up those who are actually against the actions of racism. Now, that is what is offensive, a rhetorical trick made up by racists to defend racists by accusing the victims and opponents of racism as the real racists. If you are truly offended, then you have fallen for this simple, yet pervasive, racist tactic, and now that your ignorance about it has been fought, you will not find offense at the next person that brings an act of racism to your attention, but rather, to the actual act of racism itself. > [@Velocity](#): > > By this logic, if you are anti- the pro-life side (in abortion), are you pro-death? We are actually talking about the distinction between group affiliation and self chosen labels in this very thread. Pro-life is a feel good label that is chosen, that is at odds with the actual policies that are desired by those who use that label, though, one that was in fact chosen so that that could disingenuously label their opposition to be pro-death. So, since pro-life is a label, not a description, then the opposite of pro-life is someone who opposes the policies espoused by them. Just as in this thread, the actual label that HuricaneDitka is attempting to smear all liberals with is “Antifa”, which is an extremely loose and unorganized group that opposes fascism. Some of them engage in unacceptable levels of violence. If you see, he is attempting to equate the label to the policy, insisting that anyone who is against fascism is a member of Antifa, hence all his comments of “comrade” and all. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I doubt you and I agree enough about who the fascists are in modern-day America to make an answer to that question worthwhile, and besides that, my position on fascists isn’t the topic of the thread, your (general you, I have no idea if you personally identify with Antifa or not) dead Antifa comrade is. What is your position in the thread that you started? What were you trying to accomplish with it? Your followup comments seem to indicate that you wish to smear anyone on the left as some sort of violent member of a terrorist organization. Is that what you are trying to do here? > [@Shodan](#): > > They aren’t so much defending him, as trying to change the subject. Understandably so - this guy doesn’t help their narrative. Therefore, obfuscate until the media attention dies away, and then go back to blaming everything on Trump. By changing the subject, would that be using this event to try to get people to stop talking about how the president that you are supporting is putting people into inhumane conditions? > [@Slash1972](#): > > Yes, this is the answer. Seems strange to me that someone could be so mixed up that they cannot say “Yes, I’m against fascism” > > Weird. Not that weird, I’d never accuse HurricaneDitka of being a liar. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Do you think the Tacoma PD are tyrants? Because that’s who he was combatting. Do you think that the BLM (Bureau of land management) are tyrants? The ATF, the FBI? > [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Yes, absolutely that’s what he was doing. I don’t condone it at all. But clearly this guy was trying to strike back at a tyrannical government, exactly as the Second Amendment fundamentalists believe is reasonable and appropriate (if you’re conservative). > Were they defending the internment center? Then yes, they are aiding and abetting tyranny and, as I understand the logic of Second Amendment fundamentalism, they are legitimate targets. Right? > > NB: I am not defending the attacker. I’m saying if you’re one of the right’s “Second Amendment people”, you should be defending him, or you’re just proving that you think guns are just for conservatives to enforce a racist authoritarian order. The gun rights advocates on this board have assured me that they would take up arms against tyranny, that if they saw people being marched into camps, that they would put a stop to it. Guess they just don’t see it. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > While I can’t claim to speak for all “Second Amendment funamentalists”, I don’t think you understand the logic all that well. You appear to have skipped a step or few. For starters, **manson1972** and I don’t believe the Tacoma PD are fascists. I don’t think they’re tyrants either, and I suspect he does not as well. So where does that leave us in your “you should be defending him” analysis? What happens if I don’t agree that “ICE detention center = tyranny”? Case in point… Where does that line get drawn for you? If putting legal asylum seekers into inhumane conditions isn’t tyranny to you, what is? I know that if a few white people get hurt or shot while the ATF bungles a raid to stop their illegal weapon manufacture and sales, you would consider that to be tyrannical enough that it would be reasonable to blow up a govt building. So, in your eyes, how many non-whites does it take to equal one Sammy Weaver, in your opinion? > [@Velocity](#): > > On page 3 and i still can’t get what the debate is about. Is there serious dispute that the gunman’s actions were…bad? > > Or are there people here holding that Antifa is in fact a good cause and the guy is a martyr? > > CliffNotes version please. There is no real debate, as it’s not in a debate forum, and the OP didn’t have any substance to it whatsoever. It’s pretty much just an attempt to play the both sides game, to create a false equivalence and try to smear those who are against putting children in dog cages as the bad guys. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Did you read this post at the top of the page? It’s got your CliffNotes right here: As I said, it is meant as a distraction from the fact that the president that this poster supports has created a policy that puts fellow human beings into inhumane conditions. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/145 "2019-07-16T17:00:33Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > … Just as in this thread, the actual label that HuricaneDitka is attempting to smear all liberals with is “Antifa”, which is an extremely loose and unorganized group that opposes fascism. Some of them engage in unacceptable levels of violence. … Where did you get the idea that I’m trying ‘to smear all liberals with [the label] “Antifa”’? Antifa is definitely left-wing, but I would not (and have not) argued that “all liberals” are Antifa. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/146 "2019-07-16T17:11:33Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > By changing the subject, would that be using this event to try to get people to stop talking about how the president that you are supporting is putting people into inhumane conditions? No, just the opposite. People are trying to change the subject because they are uncomfortable discussing acts of left-wing violence. Because, as I said, it doesn’t fit their narrative. Hence the flailing around trying to say ‘just because he says he’s antifa doesn’t mean he’s antifa’ and ‘nobody knows what fascism is but this isn’t it’ and ‘four restraining orders doesn’t prove anything about domestic violence’. You tried it yourself, although not very successfully. This is hardly new on the SDMB. Anyone who engages in politically motivated violence is horrible and proves conclusively that everyone associated with him is evil. Until it turns out that he isn’t a white supremacist. Whereupon everything instantly flips into whataboutism, attempts to confuse the issue, blanket denial in the teeth of the evidence, and ad hominems. "Twas ever thus. > [@manson1972](#): > > What difference does MY definition of fascism make? Are you opposed to flobisnok? Just yes or no. My definition of it doesn’t matter - are you opposed? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/147 "2019-07-16T17:24:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Are you opposed to flobisnok? Fascism isn’t a made up word. You’re literate in this language. Use the definition you most prefer, specify that definition, and tell us if you’re against fascism. You won’t do it, of course, because when you squint a little bit, the guys on your side of the political aisle are a lot like fascists, and you don’t want to say you like fascists, because the Nazis were fascists, and you don’t want to say you don’t like fascists because it takes away the violent liberal enemy you get to pretend are important. But anyway, you’re a perfectly literate person, and should you refuse to declare sides for or against fascism, we can all figure out why. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/148 "2019-07-16T17:35:03Z")
For the purposes of this thread, fascism = antifa = politically motivated violence. So I am opposed to fascism. Are you? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/149 "2019-07-16T17:37:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What happens if I don’t agree that “ICE detention center = tyranny”? I imagine that you would start ridiculous conspiracy threads about “Antifa terrorists”. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/150 "2019-07-16T17:54:27Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Where did you get the idea that I’m trying ‘to smear all liberals with [the label] “Antifa”’? Antifa is definitely left-wing, but I would not (and have not) argued that “all liberals” are Antifa. Doesn’t matter as long as long as they’re on the left and [entertain you by getting shot at](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21747353&postcount=3), right? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/151 "2019-07-16T17:54:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > For the purposes of this thread, fascism = antifa = politically motivated violence. So I am opposed to fascism. Are you? Not at all. I think the American Revolution (politically motivated violence, yes?) was a good thing. I suppose we have to take this fascism thing on a case by case basis. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/152 "2019-07-16T18:00:10Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > For the purposes of this thread, fascism = antifa = politically motivated violence. So I am opposed to fascism. Are you? > > Regards, > Shodan Yes ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/153 "2019-07-16T18:00:35Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Are you opposed to flobisnok? Just yes or no. My definition of it doesn’t matter - are you opposed? > > Regards, > Shodan Unlike you in this post, I posted a definition from an actual dictionary. If you can do that for “flobisnok”, then I will render judgement on whether or not I’m against it. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/154 "2019-07-16T18:03:52Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > For the purposes of this thread, fascism = antifa = politically motivated violence. So I am opposed to fascism. Are you? > > Regards, > Shodan Oooh, can I play? For the purposes of this thread, fascism = Trump Administration = politically motivated imprisonment. So I am opposed to fascism. Are you? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/155 "2019-07-16T18:06:01Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > fascism = antifa Falls apart right there. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/156 "2019-07-16T18:06:19Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Oooh, can I play? > > For the purposes of this thread, fascism = Trump Administration = politically motivated imprisonment. So I am opposed to fascism. Are you? You were already playing before. No point in asking permission now. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/157 "2019-07-16T18:08:06Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Falls apart right there. Not really. You see a lot of equality comparisons of things that are the exact opposite of each other. For example: electron = anti-electron matter = antimatter flammable = inflammable The list is endless. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/158 "2019-07-16T18:10:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You were already playing before. No point in asking permission now. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! \*wipes tears away. Fantastic. Just comedy gold right there. It’s like the Ovaltine of fascism jokes. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/159 "2019-07-16T18:11:45Z")
Can we get back to the OP? The guy did bad stuff and he got killed. He shouldn’t have done it. Next topic. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/160 "2019-07-16T18:12:51Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Not really. You see a lot of equality comparisons of things that are the exact opposite of each other. > > For example: > > electron = anti-electron > > matter = antimatter > > flammable = inflammable > > The list is endless. (Pssst, Flammable and inflammable are not opposites. they are same thing, fyi) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053.md?page=9)