# Antifa terrorist attacks ICE detention center, gets killed **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 14, 2019, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053 "2019-07-14T03:15:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/161 "2019-07-16T18:22:21Z")
> [@snfaulkner](#): > > (Pssst, Flammable and inflammable are not opposites. they are same thing, fyi) 😉 ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/162 "2019-07-16T18:25:15Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > 😉 Well done. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/163 "2019-07-16T19:36:06Z")
war = peace freedom = slavery ignorance = strength ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/164 "2019-07-16T19:38:24Z")
Alternative facts trump facts. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/165 "2019-07-16T19:38:26Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Can we get back to the OP? > > The guy did bad stuff and he got killed. He shouldn’t have done it. [Here’s a somewhat relevant “Bloom County” strip.](https://www.gocomics.com/bloomcounty/1983/12/07) ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/166 "2019-07-16T20:10:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Yes And yet > [@Post your unpopular opinions](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/post-your-unpopular-opinions/806001/165): > > I think Timothy McVeigh’s actions were not an entirely unreasonable reaction to Ruby Ridge and Waco. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/167 "2019-07-16T20:19:52Z")
> [@Chisquirrel](#): > > And yet > > Weird. Not really. Did you read the post I was replying to? > [@Shodan](#): > > For the purposes of this thread, fascism = antifa … ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/168 "2019-07-16T20:23:32Z")
BTW, it looks like the only vehicle he managed to torch was his daughter’s loaner. She wrote on Facebook: > [@](#): > > I have yet to physically ID it, but based on media photos I believe the car that was burnt was my old 2002 VW GTI, which I had loaned to him. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/169 "2019-07-16T20:40:55Z")
And Duke Aaron and his PSJBGC held an AR build party a while back. There’s a good chance the terrorist’s rifle came from that very event. I hope they have ATF investigators crawling up their asses with flashlights this week. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/170 "2019-07-16T21:05:09Z")
Funny how none of [the FBI’s most wanted domestic terrorists](https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/dt) are tied to Antifa. It’s like they don’t consider Antifa to be terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/171 "2019-07-16T21:57:06Z")
He’s a freedom fighter, like Timothy McVeigh, only he was trying to stop an atrocity currently in progress, not retaliate for things that happened two and three years prior; he wasn’t inspired by a white supremacist novel; and he tried to attack the people actually responsible for the atrocity instead of a bunch of unrelated bureaucrats and their children. Other than that they’re very similar. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/172 "2019-07-16T22:02:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > On page 3 and i still can’t get what the debate is about. Is there serious dispute that the gunman’s actions were…bad? > > Or are there people here holding that Antifa is in fact a good cause and the guy is a martyr? > > CliffNotes version please. I guess we have a new answer to Velocity’s earlier questions: > [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > He’s a freedom fighter, like Timothy McVeigh, only he was trying to stop an atrocity currently in progress, not retaliate for things that happened two and three years prior; he wasn’t inspired by a white supremacist novel; and he tried to attack the people actually responsible for the atrocity instead of a bunch of unrelated bureaucrats and their children. Other than that they’re very similar. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/173 "2019-07-16T22:07:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Huh? I didn’t hear that the dead guy “has **denied** committing the crime”. Did he do that? If so, where? > > **Derleth** said “The shithead was a wife-beater” and linked to an IndieGoGo page by his daughter which said “I can’t imagine what prompted Shelley to take such dramatic action, but Will has never, ever been threatening or violent in the entire time I’ve been alive.” At the very least, that latter claim is now outdated, given recent events (and really, was outdated by the time he assaulted a police officer last year). Furthermore, while it seems that there is a fair bit that she didn’t know / “can’t imagine” about her father, none of that is the accused himself denying anything. It’s his unimaginative daughter making the denial, and one that we know is not accurate (or at least no longer accurate). My genuine apology: I misread that link and thought he’d issued the denial. So instead, the level of evidence you need to condemn someone as a wife-beater is that **their daughter** denies that they are a wife-beater? And to forestall the obvious rejoinder, Shodan later dug up a claim that his wife had filed several protection orders against him. He bizarrely omitted from his cite the claim that " in the state of Washington, hearsay evidence is enough to have orders placed against anyone regardless of evidence to the contrary." I’m not sure why he left that out. Given my error, perhaps you could answer the revised question of whether you accept that someone has committed domestic assault based on the fact that their daughter denied that they committed domestic assault. Is that your standard of evidence? ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/174 "2019-07-16T22:24:37Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I guess we have a new answer to Velocity’s earlier questions: Seriously? You seriously did not see the sarcasm in that post, especially in the context of my other posts? Really? Or are you being disingenuous? Let me spell it out as clearly as I can. The guy who attacked the internment camp was a violent criminal, and the world is better off without him. Fuck him. Anyone who supports gun rights on the rationale that citizens should be able to use deadly force against government tyranny but who doesn’t support the guy who was OBVIOUSLY doing just that, is demonstrating that they really think guns are just to defend conservatives. The world will be better off without those people, and fuck them too. Is that perfectly fucking clear to you now? And to you, personally, I say if you called Timothy McVeigh’s attack on the Murrah Building “not unreasonable”, you’re a hateful monster and I don’t see any need to engage with you further. Why don’t you go off to Gab or somewhere with your hatred? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/175 "2019-07-16T22:42:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > My genuine apology: I misread that link and thought he’d issued the denial. > > So instead, the level of evidence you need to condemn someone as a wife-beater is that **their daughter** denies that they are a wife-beater? > > And to forestall the obvious rejoinder, Shodan later dug up a claim that his wife had filed several protection orders against him. He bizarrely omitted from his cite the claim that " in the state of Washington, hearsay evidence is enough to have orders placed against anyone regardless of evidence to the contrary." I’m not sure why he left that out. > > Given my error, perhaps you could answer the revised question of whether you accept that someone has committed domestic assault based on the fact that their daughter denied that they committed domestic assault. Is that your standard of evidence? You’re still not making any sense to me. What “cite” from Shodan? Please be specific. The only post of his that I can see that even touches on the matter is #146, and that doesn’t provide any cite; it’s mostly noting the double standards employed by some Dopers. The daughter’s statement(s), including the one about “hearsay evidence”, are irrelevant. AFAIK, she’s not a legal expert, and she’s clearly biased, and as already noted, her claims about her father’s non-violence have been disproven by his own documented violent acts. The evidence of the dead Antifa terrorist’s domestic violence was sufficient to persuade a judge to issue / renew a protective order four separate times, over a span of years. I wasn’t present at any of those hearings, nor any of the times he beat his wife, but that’s a good enough basis, in my eyes at least, to accept “The shithead was a wife-beater”, absent some convincing evidence to the contrary. What about for you? Are you still in the ‘four restraining orders doesn’t prove anything about domestic violence’ camp? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/176 "2019-07-16T22:44:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Where did you get the idea that I’m trying ‘to smear all liberals with [the label] “Antifa”’? Antifa is definitely left-wing, but I would not (and have not) argued that “all liberals” are Antifa. Then what was with your “comrade” comments, other than to attempt to create an association? > [@Shodan](#): > > No, just the opposite. People are trying to change the subject because they are uncomfortable discussing acts of left-wing violence. Because, as I said, it doesn’t fit their narrative. Hence the flailing around trying to say ‘just because he says he’s antifa doesn’t mean he’s antifa’ and ‘nobody knows what fascism is but this isn’t it’ and ‘four restraining orders doesn’t prove anything about domestic violence’. What is the subject? The OP is a single sentence. > [@](#): > > You tried it yourself, although not very successfully. Not really, but thanks for playing. > [@](#): > > This is hardly new on the SDMB. Anyone who engages in politically motivated violence is horrible and proves conclusively that everyone associated with him is evil. Until it turns out that he isn’t a white supremacist. Whereupon everything instantly flips into whataboutism, attempts to confuse the issue, blanket denial in the teeth of the evidence, and ad hominems. Exactly, that was my point. Violence perpetuated by white supremacists is just a part of the landscape that is accepted if not embraced by the right. Violence on the part of those on the left is a more newsworthy event as it is far less common. That is why those like the OP feel the need to try to make a one person act into some sort of conspiracy, and accuse those on opposing political sides of being their “comrades”. > [@](#): > > "Twas ever thus. Are you opposed to flobisnok? Just yes or no. My definition of it doesn’t matter - are you opposed? If someone asks if you are opposed to fascism, and you have to ask what flavor, then the answer is no, you are not opposed to facism. > [@Shodan](#): > > For the purposes of this thread, fascism = antifa = politically motivated violence. So I am opposed to fascism. Are you? By the property of equalities, politically motivated violence = the KKK = the Bundys = the Proud Boys. > [@Slash1972](#): > > Oooh, can I play? > > For the purposes of this thread, fascism = Trump Administration = politically motivated imprisonment. So I am opposed to fascism. Are you? > [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Seriously? You seriously did not see the sarcasm in that post, especially in the context of my other posts? Really? Or are you being disingenuous? No, you confused him with your statement, as he feels the same way about McVeigh as he thinks that you feel about this guy. Your sarcasm didn’t register with him, as Poe’s law works both ways. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/177 "2019-07-16T22:50:06Z")
The primary component of fascism in my view is authoritarianism. That can come from anywhere - the desire to control others isn’t monopolized by the left or right. eta: this should have been in the other thread. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/178 "2019-07-16T22:57:09Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The Republicans are above the law. Trump could torture someone to death on national television and he’d never be punished. Not by Republicans. So our goal must be to get people into power who will be able to hold Trump accountable to the law. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/179 "2019-07-16T23:07:09Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Cite. > [@Magiver](#): > > You first It’s been close to two days since I provided my cites in good faith. Where are yours? You claimed that the Trump administration’s policies on handling undocumented immigrants was virtually the same as the Obama administration’s. I ask again, cite? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2019, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053/180 "2019-07-16T23:18:25Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > The primary component of fascism in my view is authoritarianism. That can come from anywhere - the desire to control others isn’t monopolized by the left or right. So, you can see why those on the left are so concerned about anti-democratic practices of gerrymandering, voter suppression, and why we express concern about the way that the Senate and EC give disportionate power to the minority political party? Why when someone responds to observations of this undemocratic system by claiming that the US is not a democracy gives us a bit of pause? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa-terrorist-attacks-ice-detention-center-gets-killed/837053.md?page=10)