# Antifa **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 24, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145 "2017-04-24T14:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/81 "2017-04-24T20:07:04Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > [Berkeley Protestor Recounts Being Sucker Punched](http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/04/17/berkeley-protester-recounts-being-sucker-punched-i-was-just-terrified/) > > ~CBS Los Angeles > > [Anti-Fascist Protestor Targeted By Trolls…](http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2017/04/19/anti-fascist-protester-targeted-by-trolls-after-video-shows-her-being-sucker-punched-at-pro-trump-rally/) > > ~NYT > > [Woman Seen Getting Punched In Viral Video Speaks Out](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/woman-seen-getting-punched-in-viral-video-speaks-out/ar-BBzYXTM) > > ~MSN > > Shall I go on? I would dispute, first, your characterization of these stories as portraying her as a hero. None of the stories you linked use that word or any synonym. Second, I would dispute your account of Miss Rosealma’s incident. None of the available video evidence at your links supports your contentions in any way, except that she does indeed appear to be a victim. None of the quotes from Miss Rosealma support your contentions in any way. You can go on if you’d like to. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/82 "2017-04-24T20:22:24Z")
OP, the SDMB is mostly populated by older, milquetoast liberals, not the sort of people who support black bloc anarchists. About the most radical thing people here do is buy produce from farmer co-ops. If there were an actual fascist takeover of American society and these guys were the resistance we’d be in serious trouble. Coulter probably wanted to go there hoping for just this reaction. Now she gets to play the martyr. Young lefties can’t help themselves but dive face first into the right’s narrative. I’m sympathetic to the idea that you can’t debate authoritarians once they start to take over a society, and I can understand being alarmed at the direction American politics is going lately, especially the popularity of alt-reich thinking in the younger generation, but this nonsense won’t do anything to help. If anything, it probably makes things worse. A bit far afield, but I tend to think the American system is [highly](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19643990&highlight=squishy#post19643990) [resistant](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=19095390&highlight=squishy#post19095390) to internal revolution, absent a major disrupting event. Knock on wood, I guess. > [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Violence is not an acceptable means to quash ideas we don’t agree with. Pacifism and civil disobedience work when the other side has a conscience. > [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Why would you be afraid of the marketplace of ideas at all? The same reason one would be skeptical of any market. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/83 "2017-04-24T20:28:29Z")
The marketplace is fine, but some of the venders-hoo boy! ---
**Author:** ![Lydia\_Phalfav](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a6a055/32.png) [@Lydia\_Phalfav](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lydia_Phalfav)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/84 "2017-04-24T20:39:25Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > [Berkeley Protestor Recounts Being Sucker Punched](http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2017/04/17/berkeley-protester-recounts-being-sucker-punched-i-was-just-terrified/) > > ~CBS Los Angeles > > [Anti-Fascist Protestor Targeted By Trolls…](http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2017/04/19/anti-fascist-protester-targeted-by-trolls-after-video-shows-her-being-sucker-punched-at-pro-trump-rally/) > > ~NYT > > [Woman Seen Getting Punched In Viral Video Speaks Out](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/woman-seen-getting-punched-in-viral-video-speaks-out/ar-BBzYXTM) > > ~MSN > > Shall I go on? No, please don’t. All of those accounts do NOT reflect what happened on video. She is being “targeted” because she lied about her involvement & pretended to be a victim. All of those outlets took her story at face-value to push a leftist narrative instead of reporting the truth. [#MoldyLocks Account vs Video Evidence](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PevGWvB7Z_s) The latest antifa stupidity summed up: [This Week in Stupid (Sargon of Akkad)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe4-7IgMbsg) ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/85 "2017-04-24T20:40:22Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > OP, the SDMB is mostly populated by older, milquetoast liberals, not the sort of people who support black bloc anarchists. About the most radical thing people here do is buy produce from farmer co-ops. Hey, hey now - let’s not get crazy here. Some of those co-ops are a little rough and sketchy, what with their delivering of boxes full of kale on your porch in the dark of night. I much prefer paying 3x the price shopping in the safely antiseptic confines of Whole Foods or Berkeley Bowl where the only thing you have to watch out for is cranky old ex-hippies bitching about all the free-range chicken being sold out :p. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/86 "2017-04-24T20:48:57Z")
I understand what the OP is saying. Violence is wrong no matter who does it. All disputes ought to be settled with words. The world would be a better place if we could simply agree to disagree, have a beer and hug it out. But while we’re on the subject of all bad things being equally bad, am I a terrible person for wanting to punch the living shit out of a fascist or a nazy or your run of the mill white supremacist jackhole that shows up to a rally in support of views they endorse? Because I gotta say, I know I’m a terrible person for feeling that way, but fuck me if I care. Oh, and Ann Coulter is a hateful cunt, and I don’t even feel slightly bad for saying that. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/87 "2017-04-24T21:11:27Z")
> **[How to prove your enemy's point in one step. - WTF](https://9gag.com/gag/aDWMwKZ)** > > 3,937 points • 618 comments ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/88 "2017-04-24T21:12:08Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > [https://9gag.com/gag/aDWMwKZ](https://9gag.com/gag/aDWMwKZ) Yeah…no. Not clicking. When come back, bring pie. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/89 "2017-04-24T21:34:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > ETA: I think it bodes ill for our civil society when both sides start gearing up with home-made riot gear for their protests and marches. The next evolution is probably more of the [John Brown Gun Club](https://itsgoingdown.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/gun_club.jpg) and pretty soon we’re like Venezuela. Gee, [I wonder who started that trend](https://a.fastcompany.net/multisite_files/fastcompany/imagecache/1280/poster/2014/08/3034902-poster-p-1-3034902-poster-riotpolice.jpg)? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2017, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/90 "2017-04-24T21:41:50Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > But while we’re on the subject of all bad things being equally bad, am I a terrible person for wanting to punch the living shit out of a fascist or a nazy or your run of the mill white supremacist jackhole that shows up to a rally in support of views they endorse? I’d say that’s perfectly human. I frequently want to punch people who make the world a terrible place. Fortunately, they’re usually out of range. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/91 "2017-04-25T01:48:47Z")
[Bill Maher talked about this on Friday](http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2017/04/22/maher_on_berkeley_protesting_coulter_this_is_the_liberal_version_of_book_burning_fking_babies.html) > [@](#): > > Berkeley, used to be the cradle of free speech but now it’s the cradle for fucking babies. > [@](#): > > I feel like this is the liberals’ version of book burning, and it’s got to stop. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/92 "2017-04-25T01:53:58Z")
Bill Maher is a grade-A asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/93 "2017-04-25T03:14:09Z")
Ann Coulter is perfectly free to say whatever she likes, that doesn’t mean any given organization has to give her a venue to do it in. Let her stand up on a soapbox on the streetcorner like the rest of the nutjobs. It sure is rich to see literal fucking neo-nazis crying and moaning about how people used violence–violence!–against them. Because it’s a core neo-nazi belief that violence is wrong. Unless you’re machine-gunning Jews and Slavs of course. I’m not in favor of using violence against neo-nazis, but I am in favor of mocking them mercilessly when they cry like little babies about the violence inherent in the system, help, help, I’m being repressed! The fact is, nazis deserve to have the crap kicked out of them. Simple fact. However, the problem with this is that nobody deserves to be allowed to kick the crap out of people. Just like it’s not that criminals deserve a fair trial, it’s that the government doesn’t deserve to punish anyone without a fair trial. People who beat the crap out of Nazis should be charged and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Just like when a gang member gets gunned down in a drive-by shooting, the shooters should be rounded up and prosecuted. That doesn’t make the guy who got shot an innocent victim over whom any tears should be shed. I can be glad the gang banger got shot and also want the shooter to be behind bars. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/94 "2017-04-25T03:20:26Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > It sure is rich to see literal fucking neo-nazis crying and moaning about how people used violence–violence!–against them. Because it’s a core neo-nazi belief that violence is wrong. Unless you’re machine-gunning Jews and Slavs of course. No, what’s rich is seeing a country founded on the idea of free expression championing the idea of low-level grassroots violence being used against unpopular ideas. Look back in history, and I’m sure you’ll find parallels. Also, I’m sure the idea of meeting force with force would never occur to Nazis, Neo or otherwise, especially if they could justify it as self-defense. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/95 "2017-04-25T04:14:21Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Bill Maher is a grade-A asshole. Oddly, I’m more comfortable with the idea of Bill Maher getting punched in the face than I am with actual fascists getting punched in the face. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/96 "2017-04-25T04:37:06Z")
> [@Lydia\_Phalfav](#): > > No, please don’t. All of those accounts do NOT reflect what happened on video. > She is being “targeted” because she lied about her involvement & pretended to be a victim. All of those outlets took her story at face-value to push a leftist narrative instead of reporting the truth. > > [#MoldyLocks Account vs Video Evidence](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PevGWvB7Z_s) Exactly. In my previous post to **Snowboarder Bo** I mentioned that the guy who punched her had shoved her to the ground first in an effort to stop her from throwing a wine bottle into the crowd. [Here’s an excellent pic](http://imgur.com/gallery/3HE8F) of that very moment. Note she’s holding the wine bottle by the neck as if to hit someone with it or throw it. He only punched her when she jumped back up and came at him. That lying little airhead, wearing illegal weighted gloves and throwing wine bottles and bragging about getting 100 scalps, was out for blood and deserves to be facing charges. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/97 "2017-04-25T05:07:42Z")
A lengthy Pit thread from a couple months ago: [**Yvette Felarca: heroine? … or terrorist?**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=818498) covers this subject rather adequately. ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/98 "2017-04-25T05:12:38Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’ve just read what they’ve posted on Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, etc. I can agree with “they vary a lot”. Let’s direct our conversation towards those “Antifa” groups that are threatening violence in response to Ann Coulter speaking at UC Berkeley this week. :dubious: I have begun to see the word “antifa” bandied about in conservative circles of late, and it’s pretty clear to me that it’s the latest in a line of extremists chosen to be held up as false leaders of “the left,” much in the way that the protests at Berkley are discussed on conservative blogs as though similar things are happening all over the country. If you agree that “they vary a lot,” you shouldn’t continue to behave as though the word “antifa” means much. They are not an organized group of people who follow the same marching orders from some kind of central command. People who beat up other people are assholes. People who don’t beat up other people are within their rights to protest. People who call themselves “antifa” straddle both these groups, and I would hazard to guess that they lean far more heavily toward the non-violent side. I would ask that you not fall for the usual tactic of attaching negative meaning to a word that hadn’t much meaning to begin with, for the purpose of silencing your political opponents. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/99 "2017-04-25T05:56:34Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What makes me upset about this is the idea it’s about “speech they find upsetting.” I hate this euphemism crap that the right uses. It’s not about things I disagree with or things I find upsetting. It’s about evil. Things are evil regardless of how I feel about them or whether I agree or disagree with them. > > The example of a neo-Nazi is racism. This isn’t some idea I’ve never been exposed to that I’m trying to shut out. It’s an idea I already know is wrong, and thus have no reason to listen to someone who is going to be trying to convince me that they are right. Even if they succeed, what they are saying is still evil. > > Does that mean we shouldn’t learn rhetoric, and study how people convince people of things in class? No. But it does mean that I have a reason to shut out these people from directly trying to influence me. > > When it comes to not allowing them on campus, there is another reason. Sure, I know that what they say is wrong. I can anticipate that. But they are trying to convince people, and the end result at best is that on one is convinced, and more likely that some are. So the end result is a net negative. > > When it comes to particularly bad issues like racism, where we all pretty much agree it is evil, there is no reason to have that on campus. There is no reason to have us listen to them, and thus allow them to convert people. > > Does that mean that some people go too far? Yes, of course. They’re college students. They are all about extremes at that point in their life. But saying “no neo-Nazis can speak at our school unopposed” is not in my mind a bad thing. > > You want to teach kids how to spot the lies in that stuff? Do it in class, with recorded speeches and a teacher there to undermine the evil message. > > There is just a huge difference between racism/sexism or other forms of evil and things that bother us or things that we disagree with. That is the Right’s framing of the issue. > > I don’t merely disagree with a neo-Nazi or feel bad when they speak. They are objectively promoting evil. And there are reasons to say, “that crosses the line and is too far.” Goodness. :rolleyes: You going to ban all EVIL from tv, radio, the internet, magazine, assembling at churches or clubs, and the post service? No? Then engaging in hypocritical and illegal behavior with violent assaults to shut people up won’t achieve ANY of your stated goal and will actually make those doing the assaults look like the evil ones. This should go without saying. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2017, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/100 "2017-04-25T06:00:23Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > As for the question of whether Anne Coulter is a neo-Nazi? No. Not by any reasonable definition of a term. A neo-Nazi is basically openly racist. They may deny the term, but they flat out advocate that some races of people are inferior. > > That’s not to say that Coulter is some normal guy who sometimes runs into racist stuff. No, she has problems with racism. But not the blatant kind that neo-Nazis have. > > I could see allowing Anne Coulter to speak. I would, however, also support any protesters trying to keep her from speaking. I support the college deciding that they’d rather not have her speak, even after students protested to convince them of this. I also support her being allowed to speak but having a code of conduct. I support only allowing her to speak as long as there’s someone else to rebut what she says. > > She is not a neo-Nazi, and thus is not objectively evil. I do personally think her ideas are evil, but she doesn’t cross the line to objectively evil. The thing about freedom of speech is that it’s completely irrelevant what BigT demands. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145.md?page=6)