# Antifa **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 24, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145 "2017-04-24T14:57:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/141 "2017-04-26T14:08:50Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If rights aren’t made up, where do they come from? God, or if you prefer, Nature. Not the government (and certainly not from message board posters. ;)) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/142 "2017-04-26T14:17:07Z")
There is no “God”, and nature really doesn’t give a shit. They come from Man. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/143 "2017-04-26T14:57:40Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > God, or if you prefer, Nature. Your God or mine? Not nature, of course - that’s just applied chemistry. Nature has no rights, just cause and effect. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/144 "2017-04-26T15:26:32Z")
Looks like there’s another fight brewing in Berkeley: > **[UC Berkeley riots: Violence looms as mayor questioned over ties to extremist...](https://www.foxnews.com/politics/uc-berkeley-riots-violence-looms-as-mayor-questioned-over-ties-to-extremist-group)** > > The University of California, Berkeley is likely to once again be the site of brutal protests on Thursday as questions arise about whether the city’s mayor has ties to an extremist group sparking violence. > [@](#): > > Charles “Sid” Heal, a retired commander from the Los Angeles Sheriff’s Department who met with Berkeley police on Monday, said that authorities are preparing for the worst because extremist groups from across the spectrum are heading to Berkeley, and because the past three protests that devolved into violence were met by a “lackluster” response from local police. > > “We’ve been told they’re going to come no matter whether Ann Coulter comes or not, and the next riot is not a standalone in isolation but a natural consequence of the lackluster approach of the past,” Heal said, adding that because protesters felt police didn’t protect them at the last riot many are pledging to defend themselves. “People are becoming vigilantes.” > > Heal and others said there is deep discord between the Berkeley Police Department and the city government, led by Jesse Arreguin, the 32-year-old newly elected mayor facing his first major test in running a large city. Arreguin has been accused of supporting left-wing violence because he is a member of the Facebook group of By Any Means Necessary, or BAMN, a far left group that has incited violent protests across the country. > > Yvette Felarca, a BAMN national organizer, was unapologetic last June after her group shut down a Neo-Nazi protest in Sacramento that sent 10 people to the hospital. > > "We will do it again,” she said. “The Nazis had to run and hide behind the police.” > > In a statement to Fox News, Arreguin distanced himself from Felarca and BAMN. > > "On social media, following a particular account does not mean you support that group or individual,” he said. “I was following this particular group so I could stay up to date on what they are up to. I condemn their violent actions in the strongest terms.” [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/04/25/uc-berkeley-readies-police-as-ann-coulter-plans-to-speak-in-public-plaza-on-campus/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2017/04/25/uc-berkeley-readies-police-as-ann-coulter-plans-to-speak-in-public-plaza-on-campus/) > [@](#): > > The University of California at Berkeley is bracing for massive protests and potential violence in an open, public space known as Sproul Plaza after hearing that conservative commentator Ann Coulter plans to give a speech there Thursday. > > The state flagship university has become ground zero for an intense confrontation between the far left and the far right since Donald Trump’s election in November, with some protesters trying to stop controversial speakers from appearing on campus and others objecting that such actions violate their right to free speech. Some of the clashes have devolved into riots, leaving the school and city to struggle with how best to balance the free exchange of ideas with community safety. > > In February — and twice more since then — masked protesters turned demonstrations over free speech and hate speech into violent confrontations, setting fires, causing injuries and leaving hundreds of thousands of dollars of property damage in their wake. > > “The character of that attack on campus was unprecedented,” UC-Berkeley Chancellor Nicholas Dirks said Tuesday. I’ll be pleasantly surprised if nobody dies. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/145 "2017-04-26T16:37:03Z")
I’m not certain that a debate on whether or not a specific protestor is a member of this group or that group is productive. Do these left wing or right wing groups require membership? Is there a bureaucracy set up to track who is, and who is not a member? Or do people “drop in” and “drop out” (of membership) at will, as circumstances and impulse suites them? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/146 "2017-04-26T16:50:35Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > If rights aren’t made up, where do they come from? Game theory. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/147 "2017-04-26T16:59:10Z")
> [@thirdname](#): > > It’s an official Reuters photograph. Here it is at their site, click to picture #18: [http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/trump-rally-turns-violent-at-berkeley?articleId=USRTS12MDO](http://www.reuters.com/news/picture/trump-rally-turns-violent-at-berkeley?articleId=USRTS12MDO) > > Direct pic link of it from another website: [http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/17/15/3F4EF20700000578-4418540-image-a-62\_1492441195942.jpg](http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/04/17/15/3F4EF20700000578-4418540-image-a-62_1492441195942.jpg) > Here are more pics: [https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9odN-GXkAAdbGR.jpg](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9odN-GXkAAdbGR.jpg) > > It’s also visible in the original video where she gets punched. You have to look carefully, but before she is punched you can see her in the background with it. I’m having trouble finding the original video; Youtube is filled with edits and commentaries on it. > > A wine bottle is a deadly weapon. It can fracture a skull, destroy eyes or slice a jugular vein. Thank you for the direct link to Reuters. I agree that throwing bottles is dangerous and potentially deadly and that it does indeed appear that Miss Rosealma was engaged in that activity. I also agree that it certainly makes her a, uh, much less sympathetic figure (at the very least). ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/148 "2017-04-26T17:07:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There is no “God”, and nature really doesn’t give a shit. They come from Man. The Declaration of Independence disagrees. > [@](#): > > We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that **they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,** that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. Either God or Nature created Man, Man didn’t create himself. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/149 "2017-04-26T17:09:23Z")
Now freedom to assemble is under threat from the same sort of groups. I guess political violence does work. > **[82nd Avenue of the Roses Parade Cancelled after Threats of Political...](https://www.portlandmercury.com/news/2017/04/25/18973706/82nd-avenue-of-the-roses-parade-cancelled-after-threats-of-political-protests-violence)** > > \*\*\*Update\*\*\*A statement from Direct Action Alliance, which had been planning a protest of the right wing marchers: We are disappointed that the Avenue of Roses Parade has been cancelled. As members of this community, we prize our neighborhood events... > **[Organizers cancel 82nd Avenue of Roses Parade, after protesters threaten to...](https://www.oregonlive.com/rosefest/2017/04/organizers_cancel_82nd_avenue.html)** > > The east Portland parade was canceled after protest groups threatened to shut it down. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/150 "2017-04-26T17:23:05Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Thank you for the direct link to Reuters. I agree that throwing bottles is dangerous and potentially deadly and that it does indeed appear that Miss Rosealma was engaged in that activity. I also agree that it certainly makes her a, uh, much less sympathetic figure (at the very least). Kudos to you for coming back. 🙂 ETA: and FWIW, I don’t consider Damigo a sympathetic figure either. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/151 "2017-04-26T17:52:38Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The Declaration of Independence disagrees. That’s a mighty strange reason to believe in God, dude. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/152 "2017-04-26T18:10:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s a mighty strange reason to believe in God, dude. Dude, that’s not what I said. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/153 "2017-04-26T18:50:36Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The Declaration of Independence disagrees. It’s a bit ambigous on the creator part, that could be talking about God, Nature, a mad scientist, or even just your parents. > [@](#): > > Either God or Nature created Man, Man didn’t create himself. Neither god nor nature created rights. Especially not inalienable rights. I can tell this, because those rights can be violated. If they were inalienable, they could not be. If you are playing an online RGP, like World of Warcraft, you would see that there are some inalienable rights there. You cannot attack someone in a city. It’s not frowned upon, you don’t receive a sanction, you won’t get in trouble with the law, it just is not possible. So, were there to be some power greater than ourselves from which these rights extend, then that power would be enforcing and protecting those rights, and we wouldn’t even need to talk about them, you would just have them. As our rights are created by man, and man is pretty flawed, those rights are only as strong as the enforcement and protection granted to them by man. Which means that it is frowned upon, and you may receive sanction for violating someone’s rights, but there really isn’t much that can be done proactively to protect them. Show me a right that cannot be violated, and I may concede that that right was created by something other than man. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/154 "2017-04-26T18:57:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Now freedom to assemble is under threat from the same sort of groups. I guess political violence does work. > > [http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/04/25/18973706/82nd-avenue-of-the-roses-parade-cancelled-after-threats-of-political-protests-violence](http://www.portlandmercury.com/blogtown/2017/04/25/18973706/82nd-avenue-of-the-roses-parade-cancelled-after-threats-of-political-protests-violence) > > [Organizers cancel 82nd Avenue of Roses Parade, after protesters threaten to shut it down - oregonlive.com](http://www.oregonlive.com/rosefest/index.ssf/2017/04/organizers_cancel_82nd_avenue.html) Reading through the article that you cite, I find myself wondering why the pro-trump side had such violent rhetoric. I suppose it does make sense to cancel the parade when the pro-trump people were so spoiling for a fight, but you are right that it is pretty uncool. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/155 "2017-04-26T19:17:04Z")
Coulter has backed out of her plans to trespass at Berkeley because she says her supporters have dropped out. > **[Ann Coulter Says She Will Pull Out of Speech at Berkeley (Published 2017)](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/us/ann-coulter-berkeley-speech.html)** > > Ms. Coulter, whose speech had earlier been canceled by the university over safety concerns, said, “It’s a sad day for free speech.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/156 "2017-04-26T19:38:27Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Coulter has backed out of her plans to trespass at Berkeley because she says her supporters have dropped out. > [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/us/ann-coulter-berkeley-speech.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/us/ann-coulter-berkeley-speech.html) “trespass”? My understanding was that her plans (before this cancellation) were to speak at Sproul Plaza, which I’ve heard is an open public space where pretty much anyone can come and speak. Why do you describe it as a “trespass”? I didn’t think even the UC Berkeley administration had taken that position. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/157 "2017-04-26T19:50:46Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Reading through the article that you cite, I find myself wondering why the pro-trump side had such violent rhetoric. I suppose it does make sense to cancel the parade when the pro-trump people were so spoiling for a fight, but you are right that it is pretty uncool. What violent rhetoric did you read by “the pro-trump people”? The only two quotes I found from right-wingers were: > [@](#): > > We weren’t willing to just walk away quietly > [@](#): > > Christian men, Patriots, and those who just love freedom … stand with us against tyranny, and the oppression that Antifa has imposed on the citizens of this great nation. The Fight for freedom requires action! Rise up men! Be there this Saturday. contrast that with the much-more-explicitly-violent leftists’ declared intentions: > [@](#): > > we will have two hundred or more people rush into the parade into the middle and drag and push those people out … we will not allow these people to spread their views in East Portland. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/158 "2017-04-26T20:22:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What violent rhetoric did you read by “the pro-trump people”? The only two quotes I found from right-wingers were: > contrast that with the much-more-explicitly-violent leftists’ declared intentions: Well, we have > [@](#): > > Christian men, Patriots, and those who just love freedom … stand with us against tyranny, and the oppression that Antifa has imposed on the citizens of this great nation. The Fight for freedom requires action! Rise up men! Be there this Saturday. From a person who is known to be violent, in fact there is video of him kicking a protester while the protestor is laying there defenseless. He is amember of “Hell Shaking Street Preachers”, he posted this > [@](#): > > “Crusaders for Christ after the victory in Berkeley. Terrorist antifa chased off and beaten. In God we trust, with Trump we stand! Freedom fighting.” Bragging about his groups penchant for violence. Now, this is contrasted to an anonymous email, that for all I know, you could have sent as a false flag, or some idiot could have sent becuase he supported stupid things like violence in protests. Point is, on one side, you have a leader of a group who has participated in quite a bit of violence talking about gearing up for a fight, and on the other, you have an anonymous email that might represent the perspective of a member, but is most certainly not representative of the leadership, or the bulk of the protesters. Now, a poor form of false equivalency would be to paint them as the same, an even poorer argument would be to take the anonymous email as more serious than the one signed by the leader of a violent group. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_jeffrey_lebowski/32/215_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Jeffrey_Lebowski)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/159 "2017-04-26T20:57:39Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > What violent rhetoric did you read by “the pro-trump people”? Twitter is a platform which one can find lots of violent rhetoric by the Alt Right. @rvawonk has shared plenty of this in the past few weeks. I’ll post some links later, when I have the chance to dig them up. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145/160 "2017-04-26T21:05:07Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Jeffrey\_Lebowski](#): > > Twitter is a platform which one can find lots of violent rhetoric by the Alt Right. @rvawonk has shared plenty of this in the past few weeks. I’ll post some links later, when I have the chance to dig them up. Thanks, but it’s besides the point. k9bfriender appears to refer to violent rhetoric _in the article_, not on Twitter. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Reading through the article that you cite, I find myself wondering why the pro-trump side had such violent rhetoric. I suppose it does make sense to cancel the parade when the pro-trump people were so spoiling for a fight, but you are right that it is pretty uncool. He seems to believe that the parade was cancelled primarily / exclusively because of violent rhetoric from the pro-Trump side. It was a clever post, almost cute, but seems like a perspective at odds with reality. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antifa/785145.md?page=9)