# Antioxidants, gluten intolerance and supplements? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 21, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antioxidants-gluten-intolerance-and-supplements/597088 "2011-09-21T17:23:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antioxidants-gluten-intolerance-and-supplements/597088/22 "2011-09-23T04:27:47Z")
> [@Surreal](#): > > [Web Page Under Construction](http://www.livingwithout.com/issues/4_15/qa_augsep11-2554-1.html) > \ I am not sure what you think copying a complete article does to the value of your point. I read the link. I was just completely unimpressed. There is a claim that there may be up to 20 million Americans with gluten sensitivity, but no basis was provided for such a claim. None. Searching the literature databases I can find nothing that would substantiate such a claim either. Quoting an alleged “expert” claiming something is not enough. Meanwhile I am still unsure about something more widely accepted by the medical community - the alleged benefit to diagnosing “silent” celiac disease (CD). There are many people who if screened will be positive for the antibodies associated with CD. Once identified they are advised to be on a gluten free diet. Yet older adults who were found to have had [undiagnosed silent celiac disease are not overall less healthy](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20685275) than control populations. Same mortality rate. Yes poor bone health and a higher chance of having thyroid disease, but better BMI and better cholesterol. Oh there are a few studies that show there may be some benefits as well, but it seems to me that we have jumped the gun in presuming a significant benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Surreal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eada6e/32.png) [@Surreal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Surreal)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antioxidants-gluten-intolerance-and-supplements/597088/23 "2011-09-23T06:01:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Meanwhile I am still unsure about something more widely accepted by the medical community - the alleged benefit to diagnosing “silent” celiac disease (CD). There are many people who if screened will be positive for the antibodies associated with CD. Once identified they are advised to be on a gluten free diet. Yet older adults who were found to have had [undiagnosed silent celiac disease are not overall less healthy](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20685275) than control populations. Same mortality rate. Yes poor bone health and a higher chance of having thyroid disease, but better BMI and better cholesterol. Oh there are a few studies that show there may be some benefits as well, but it seems to me that we have jumped the gun in presuming a significant benefit. Apparently you must have missed this study: > **[Increased prevalence and mortality in undiagnosed celiac disease - PubMed](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19362553/)** > > During 45 years of follow-up, undiagnosed CD was associated with a nearly 4-fold increased risk of death. The prevalence of undiagnosed CD seems to have increased dramatically in the United States during the past 50 years. > [@](#): > > BACKGROUND & AIMS: > > The historical prevalence and long-term outcome of undiagnosed celiac disease (CD) are unknown. We investigated the long-term outcome of undiagnosed CD and whether the prevalence of undiagnosed CD has changed during the past 50 years. > > METHODS: > > This study included 9133 healthy young adults at Warren Air Force Base (sera were collected between 1948 and 1954) and 12,768 gender-matched subjects from 2 recent cohorts from Olmsted County, Minnesota, with either similar years of birth (n = 5558) or age at sampling (n = 7210) to that of the Air Force cohort. Sera were tested for tissue transglutaminase and, if abnormal, for endomysial antibodies. Survival was measured during a follow-up period of 45 years in the Air Force cohort. The prevalence of undiagnosed CD between the Air Force cohort and recent cohorts was compared. > > RESULTS: > > Of 9133 persons from the Air Force cohort, 14 (0.2%) had undiagnosed CD. \*\*In this cohort, during 45 years of follow-up, all-cause mortality was greater in persons with undiagnosed CD than among those who were seronegative (hazard ratio = 3.9; 95% confidence interval, 2.0-7.5; P \< .001). \*\*Undiagnosed CD was found in 68 (0.9%) persons with similar age at sampling and 46 (0.8%) persons with similar years of birth. The rate of undiagnosed CD was 4.5-fold and 4-fold greater in the recent cohorts, respectively, than in the Air Force cohort (both P \< or = .0001). > > CONCLUSIONS: > > During 45 years of follow-up, **undiagnosed CD was associated with a nearly 4-fold increased risk of death.** The prevalence of undiagnosed CD seems to have increased dramatically in the United States during the past 50 years. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antioxidants-gluten-intolerance-and-supplements/597088/24 "2011-09-23T12:13:32Z")
Nope. I mentioned that a few studies go the other way too. But that study had a grand total of 14 people who were “undiagnosed CD”, and it is hard for me to feel that medical policy that looks for “a condition” and then commits individuals with that “condition” to a lifelong significant intervention, should be based on such small _n_’s when larger cohorts have not confirmed the finding. Again, I note that my view is divergent from that of the experts in this regard, and am open to being pointed to the studies that I _have_ missed. I suspect they exist … but so far I’m not seeing studies large enough to justify such a solid conclusion. Instead I find a mixed bag of results. Looking more just now I found [this recent review](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2830645/?tool=pubmed) that states it as follows: > [@](#): > > A major question relates to what is the ultimate outcome of undiagnosed, presumed silent CD. Two studies suggested a significantly increased risk of mortality in patients with undiagnosed CD.1, 12 However, the association with increased mortality is not universal nor is the association with increased malignancy.13, 14 Two studies each way. On the worse mortality side that one with 14, and another with 63 cases of “silent CD”, and on the no excess mortality side one with 74 and one with 129 cases. It just does not seem like enough to draw firm conclusions and base interventions off of with any confidence. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antioxidants-gluten-intolerance-and-supplements/597088/25 "2011-09-23T12:54:17Z")
Sorry for the double post, but my skeptics bell rings even louder. If it was demonstrated that antibody positivity was correlated with increased mortality, then really demonstrating that gluten elimination was indicated in those with “silent disease” would also require an interventional study, a study that showed that health outcomes were significantly improved by elimination. Correlation does not mandate causation; antibody positivity could be a _marker_ for an individual being at risk for other conditions without the gluten exposure being causative. In fact we _know_ that such _is_ the case to some degree. Celiac antibody positivity is correlated with a host of conditions that we do not believe the gluten causes, from other autoimmune diseases like diabetes and thyroid disease, to Down Syndrome. _IF_ increased mortality in the antibody positive _was_ well established then it might merely be that responding with antibodies to gluten identified you as someone likely to respond to other things in maladaptive ways, but that gluten elimination would make no outcome difference. Instead it would signify a need for closer follow up. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antioxidants-gluten-intolerance-and-supplements/597088/26 "2011-09-23T14:33:00Z")
More on the antioxidant supplementation issue: Again no question that eating lots of real foods that are high in antioxidants is correlated with lots of good health outcomes. But studies of supplementing antioxidants have often had either no benefit or paradoxically poor outcomes. [Dietary intake of carotenoids and vitamin C](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21178086) lowers odds of male urinary tract symptoms, but supplements were associated with an increased risk. [Supplemental beta carotene](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20484175) increased the risk of lung cancer in smokers. [This review](http://www.ajcn.org/content/85/1/314S.long) may be what you are looking for overall. In general few studies supporting supplement use in a typical Western diet population. A study in a province of China known to have “low intakes of numerous nutrients and the world’s highest rate of esophageal cancer” found “a 13% reduction in cancer mortality” from β-carotene–vitamin E–selenium supplementation, but > [@](#): > > Other clinical trials of multivitamin supplement use and cancer prevention have produced null or possibly harmful results for the primary endpoints regarding supplement use. Each claim should be evaluated on its own merits or lack of however. Again, I am personally convinced of the benefits of turmeric supplementation. There is good (albeit not conclusive) evidence that turmeric (the active portion being curcumin) protects against Alzheimer’s, helps make for healthy endothelium, and has good effects on lipid profiles. Taking some in a pill with a meal once a day seems close enough to its “real food” form for me. Likewise with the data on fish oil caps since my diet is not as high in the fatty fish as I’d like it to be. I’ll get my extra selenium in an [occasional Brazil nut](http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/selenium). (One Brazil nut a day is enough right there.) ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antioxidants-gluten-intolerance-and-supplements/597088/27 "2011-09-25T04:57:08Z")
> [@No\_umlaut\_for\_U](#): > > A family member claims to be gluten intolerant, yet I see her eating a lot of foods–albeit highly processed ones–with wheat as an ingredient. I quietly smirk. I’m gluten intolerant (as far as I can determine on my own), and I eat food with wheat. Why? Because I’m a frickin’ moron sometimes and if I don’t have that brownie, I’ll just die! Or because it looked safe, but I forgot to read the entire ingredients list. Or because I didn’t plan ahead, and I can’t find any damn gluten free food. And I pay for it. Oh, do I pay for it. If your family member spends a lot of time dashing to the bathroom, can’t remember mundane details to save their life, or has problems with migraines and depression, they’re probably paying for it as well. ---
**Author:** ![abderian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@abderian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abderian)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antioxidants-gluten-intolerance-and-supplements/597088/28 "2011-09-25T14:12:09Z")
To address the OP, the website to which Lissla Lissar has linked shows a guy who’s merely attached himself to some old, already-debunked sales pitches originally put forth by Joel Wallach, who runs a multi-level marketing supplement scheme — once called “American Longevity” (or, in other markets, “Canadian Longevity” or “Australian Longevity”). Now it’s called American Youngevity. Google these two phrases, side-by-side: “peter glidden” “joel wallach”, and you’ll see the connection. It looks like Glidden is spouting Wallach’s garbage — Glidden’s website is even flogging Wallach’s MLM supplements and books. Some of Wallach’s claims can be found here: [http://fountain-ofyouth.com/30min.htm](http://fountain-ofyouth.com/30min.htm) Here’s an “encyclopedia” of all the crap that’s come out of Wallach’s mouth (and gets adopted by people like Glidden): [Wallach Wisdom Encyclopedia -A](http://www.kingmaker.net/eknowtrient-a.htm) Many of Wallach’s claims are refuted here: > **[Colloidal Minerals: Unnecessary and Potentially Hazardous | Quackwatch](https://quackwatch.org/related/DSH/colloidalminerals/)** > > Colloidal mineral promoters would like you to believe that mineral deficiency is a widespread cause of disease. To counter this alleged problem, they are marketing products said to be water-leached from shale in the Emery Coal Field of central Utah.... > **[What’s the deal with colloidal silver?](https://www.straightdope.com/21343867/what-s-the-deal-with-colloidal-silver)** [http://nutra-smart.net/al.htm#court](http://nutra-smart.net/al.htm#court) There’s more, but it’s all pretty much the same garbage. To me, it looks like old crap wrapped in a new package. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antioxidants-gluten-intolerance-and-supplements/597088/29 "2011-09-26T00:15:54Z")
A couple things to add to the good points already made: What happens when a person with vague symptoms i.e. fatigue gets put on a gluten-free diet as an experiment, or in response to finding an antibody of questionable significance? If they feel better it may have no connection at all with the diet (maybe they had a self-limited viral illness) but then they’ll likely feel compelled to follow a restrictive diet for life, unnecessarily. People like the Dr. Glidden cited in the OP (a naturopath, it figures) want us to believe that modern medicine foists drugs on us that we don’t need, but at the same time they argue that we are such frail flowers that we need a raft of supplements to stay healthy. There’s a contradiction there, I fear. Or it’s BS (As in Dr. Glidden, BS). ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antioxidants-gluten-intolerance-and-supplements/597088/30 "2011-09-26T01:44:19Z")
**Jackmannii** , what are your thoughts on screening asymptomatic individuals for celiac antibodies (e.g. t-transglutamase) and the sometimes now advised repeated screening if negative the first time? (See posts 23 and 24.) Is my skepticism way out of left field here? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antioxidants-gluten-intolerance-and-supplements/597088/31 "2011-09-26T02:02:30Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > **Jackmannii** , what are your thoughts on screening asymptomatic individuals for celiac antibodies (e.g. t-transglutamase) and the sometimes now advised repeated screening if negative the first time? (See posts 23 and 24.) Is my skepticism way out of left field here? I can’t answer for **Jackmannii** but that screening idea seems totally insane to me, with us having no idea at the present time of the specificity or selectivity of the screen, no idea of whether the test results will help or harm, and no idea of the cost of trying to screen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antioxidants-gluten-intolerance-and-supplements/597088.md?page=1)