# Antisemitism **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 17, 2008, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109 "2008-11-17T11:20:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/41 "2008-11-18T02:13:34Z")
This is what I posted and what you cited as to what you were answering: > [@sailor](#): > > I do not believe that. Their not eating certain things, especially pork, was taken as a sign that thaeir conversion was not legitimate. This was not a question of “he still likes chick peas” as much as “his diet, especially his refusal to eat foods forbidden to Jews, is one more indications that he continues to be a practicing Jew, which added to the other indications like his not being sufficiently pious in Church, etc all indicate his conversion was a sham”. I believe your answer does not respond to the entirety of that but that it rather takes something out of context. When a prosecutor says: “the fact that the defendant was seen fleeing the site of the crime, added to all the other evidence presented goes to prove that the defendant did indeed commit armed robbery” does not mean the defendant is being persecuted for running across the street even though others run across the street and are not prosecuted. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/42 "2008-11-18T02:18:19Z")
I did take it out of context, but that’s because it’s not any kind of evidence at all. The logical answer is that Mr. Ex-Jew doesn’t eat pork because he’s never eaten pork before, not because he’s really still a practicing Jew. Fleeing the site of the crime is evidence that you _could_ have committed the crime (because you were there). Disliking bacon is not evidence that you’re Jewish. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/43 "2008-11-18T02:31:28Z")
As soon as you provide examples of Christians (converted or “native”) who were persecuted _solely_ for not eating pork you will have a case. In the meanwhile you don’t. Specially because pork was probably so expensive not many people got to eat much of it anyway. Had the Inquisition provided them with a plate of pork most would have eaten it without any need to convince them. Food was pretty scarce at that time and people ate what they could rather than what they liked. So, find me a good Christian, practicing in every respect, who was persecuted solely for not eating pork. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/44 "2008-11-18T02:43:04Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > So, find me a good Christian, practicing in every respect, who was persecuted solely for not eating pork. I think I’d find it quite difficult to establish just how good a Christian any Inquisition victim might have been or not been, but I don’t think you’ll find anyone else who thinks the Inquisition was well-run, as you seem to. ---
**Author:** ![seodoa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@seodoa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/seodoa)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/45 "2008-11-18T02:47:34Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > So, find me a good Christian, practicing in every respect, who was persecuted solely for not eating pork. Find me a good, God-fearing Christian who does not like bacon and I will persecute him for you. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/46 "2008-11-18T03:04:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think I’d find it quite difficult to establish just how good a Christian any Inquisition victim might have been or not been, but I don’t think you’ll find anyone else who thinks the Inquisition was well-run, as you seem to. So you are saying you hold a belief but have no evidence to support it? BTW, I never said the Inquisition was “well run”. I am saying they were fairly normal for how things were done in Europe at the time. Even centuries later my ancestors had to flee Scotland to save their lives because they were Catholic. So let us not pretend these things only happened in Spain because probably more people were killed and displaced in northern Europe by wars and conflicts of religion than were in Spain. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/47 "2008-11-18T03:06:39Z")
> [@seodoa](#): > > Find me a good, God-fearing Christian who does not like bacon and I will persecute him for you. 😉 I don’t know about bacon but you sure as hell won’t any true Spaniard who does not like Jamón serrano. I know Jews who love it but never met a Spaniard who didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/48 "2008-11-18T03:15:00Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > So you are saying you hold a belief but have no evidence to support it? > > BTW, I never said the Inquisition was “well run”. I am saying they were fairly normal for how things were done in Europe at the time. Even centuries later my ancestors had to flee Scotland to save their lives because they were Catholic. So let us not pretend these things only happened in Spain because probably more people were killed and displaced in northern Europe by wars and conflicts of religion than were in Spain. No, I disagreed with your belief. Also, I misinterpreted your view of the Inquisition, so sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/49 "2008-11-18T03:19:02Z")
I think the Jews historically were persecuted because they were available. Medieval Europeans could have hated Muslims or Africans or Chinese, but they were all thousands of miles away - what fun is that? You need an enemy who’s close enough to hit when you’re in a bad mood. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/50 "2008-11-18T03:56:41Z")
Look, **Really Not All That Bright** , this is getting silly. If you are the one who claims Christian ex-Jews were persecuted solely on the basis that they did not eat pork then it is up to you to provide evidence in support of that assertion. I maintain that as long as there is no evidence that it happened I do not have to believe that it happened. And, BTW, the trials of the Inquisition are quite well preserved as are many others of that time. Quite a few have been published, including those against [Antonio Perez](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Perez) which I have read in their entirety some time ago. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/51 "2008-11-18T04:28:22Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > Look, **Really Not All That Bright** , this is getting silly. If you are the one who claims Christian ex-Jews were persecuted solely on the basis that they did not eat pork then it is up to you to provide evidence in support of that assertion. I maintain that as long as there is no evidence that it happened I do not have to believe that it happened. Pedro de Villarreal, his wife Maria Lopex, and their daughter Isabella were all executed in Castile in 1519. The charges against them were that they didn’t eat pork, that she removed the sciatic nerve from meat, prepared special “sabbath stews”, didn’t eat rabbit or eel, and ate meat on fast days. It’s quite possible that they were crypto-Jews, but the fact is that each of those charges…refusal to eat pork, removal of the sciatic nerve, prepared sabbath stews, refusal to eat rabbit and eel, and eating meat on fast days, were themselves independent charges, and seen as proof of crypto-Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/52 "2008-11-18T04:34:54Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Pedro de Villarreal, his wife Maria Lopex, and their daughter Isabella were all executed in Castile in 1519. The charges against them were that they didn’t eat pork, that she removed the sciatic nerve from meat, prepared special “sabbath stews”, didn’t eat rabbit or eel, and ate meat on fast days. > > It’s quite possible that they were crypto-Jews, but the fact is that each of those charges…refusal to eat pork, removal of the sciatic nerve, prepared sabbath stews, refusal to eat rabbit and eel, and eating meat on fast days, were themselves independent charges, and seen as proof of crypto-Judaism. That’s what I said, isn’t it? And it would be interesting to read the original documents. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/53 "2008-11-18T05:54:19Z")
> [@sailor](#): > > That’s what I said, isn’t it? And it would be interesting to read the original documents. But that’s what **Really Not That Bright** is saying too. He’s saying that the mere accusations of pork eating, or eating meat on Friday, or not lighting lamps on Saturday against conversos were enough to start an investigation or even lead to a conviction, while this wasn’t the case with Old Christians. Conversos were, as a class, suspected of being crypto-Jews. This isn’t even taking into account the limpieza de sangre legislation, which was racial antisemitism and not even religious antisemitism. Obviously Spain wasn’t the only anti-Semitic county or the only religiously intolerant country, but, in the late fifteenth and sixteenth century especially, Jews were persecuted in Spain. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2008, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109/54 "2008-11-18T11:59:02Z")
Of course adhering to a Jewish diet was more likely to raise suspicions on a Jewish convert than on a “native” Christian. Plenty of native Christians were persecuted for having read Muslim or Jewish books and other such things. The point is that the Inquisition did not persecute anybody for the mere fact of being an ex-Jew but for signs that they may be declaring their Christianity while secretly practicing the Jewish faith. Of course being an ex-Jew would be one more point in raising suspicions. Monty Python not withstanding the Inquisition were not entirely stupid. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/antisemitism/473109.md?page=2)