Any "bad" white neighborhoods in the US?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

This thread is leaning towards a reaction to the implication that “color” correlates to the “badness” of a neighborhood.

I can see how some of you might suspect that was my intent, so let me state clearly that was not.

I purposely chose to ask about neighborhoods rather than ghettos & barrios to avoid that correlation. But, it didn’t work.

<digression>Anyway, to me ghetto means an area that has become obviously homogeneous. In my world, the talk lately is of the relatively new phenomenon of “gay ghettos” and whether that’s healthy or not. No one fears for their life walking through a gay ghetto, although there is the risk of vicious drive-by fashion consultancies. </digression>

I know it’s a fine line I’m teetering on. The most dangerous neighborhoods usually are one color neighborhoods. So I asked whether any of these dangerous one color neighborhoods happen to be white.

Only a moron would assume: one color neighborhood = that color is bad any more than: white neighborhood = whites are bad. I might be a moron, but please don’t class me a moron based on my making that assumption.

You take any group of people, take away the jobs, take away their access to decent law enforcement, health care, social services & education, let it devolve into a cesspool of drugs, crime & violence and voila! Bad, dangerous neighborhood.

There are a lot of issues to take into consideration. But, I don’t want to get into that hear. It’s been discussed before. A lot.

I just wanted to know if there are “bad”, dangerous white neighborhoods. Apparently now there may be a few, although I’m still not convinced they’re so dangerous you seriously risk getting shot or stabbed just by going there. Intimidated, harassed, yes. But so dangerous even the police, EMTs & postal carriers don’t want to go there?

22

Well, there are probably fewer such neighborhoods that are all white, simply because there are fewer places where you can find a nexus of “only white peope” and extreme poverty. As Astorian noted, it was not that difficult to find such neighborhoods when the pockets of extreme poverty were, indeed, frequently all white.

Beyond that, I suspect that there are fewer of any neighborhoods such as you have described than common opinion would lead some people to believe, anyway. There were several neighborhoods in Cleveland that were often described as “too dangerous for the police.” Yet, when Deb was working as a home health care nurse with a caseload that was entirely Medicaid clients, she frequently saw clients in those neighborhoods and was never hassled–sandy blonde hair and freckles, notwithstanding.

There were a few areas in Detroit where I used to visit a few times a year that I was told were “too dangerous” for anyone to visit and that the police avoided them. I was never hassled, there, either.

Now, I may have been protected by my size and Deb may have been protected by her stethescope, (and I am quite sure that luck played some part in our never being accosted), but I suspect that the more likely explanation is that there are far fewer places (populated by any variety of people) that are simply unsafe to all who enter. I am not minimizing the fact that there are rough neighborhoods or that the unwary may be preyed upon or that the longer one lives in a high-crime area, the greater the odds that one will be a victim. I am saying that fear and a lack of actual contact allows people to create stories about places that may be wildly exaggerated.

South of Cleveland is one of the early very large malls, Randall Park. It is dying, slowly but surely, because many people simply will not shop there. I have been told by neighbors that they will not go there–actually driving an additional 15 - 20 miles beyond it to other malls with the same stores to avoid the “danger.” There have been robberies, there (and a couple of rapes and one carjacking). However, it is not a daily occurrence and, from reading the papers I see as much reported atr the other malls as there. Impressions and rumors are hard to fight, however.

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One last point- in almost ALL of the “bad neighborhoods” being discussed, the people at risk aren’t outsiders who visit.

When I was a teenager in the 1970s (when crime in New York City was at its worst), I used to ride the subway, alone, to Yankee Stadium all the time. And when I told people that, years later, they were often SHOCKED! “You went to the South Bronx alone? When you were a kid? Are you crazy? Weren’t you afraid?”

Well… no, not really. A white kid who goes to the South Bronx in the daytime, or when there’s a ballgame going on, isn’t in grave danger. It’s not as if there are huge packs of violent black men lying in wait to attack the first white kid who comes along! Crime in the South Bronx is real, but it’s not visitors who have to fear it. It’s the people who LIVE there full-time. It’s the poor welfare Moms living in South Bronx “projects” who needed to be afraid- not the white kid going to a Yankees game.

Moreover, even when crime was at it’s worst, there were about 2000 murders a year in New York City. In a city of 8 million, that’s STILL a mighty low percentage. Dangerous neighborhoods were a reality, but neighborhoods “so dangerous even the police won’t set foot in them” were more a Dirty Harry/Charles Bronson fantasy thana reality.

24

That’s a good point. Maybe I’m working off outdated information. Are there any neighborhoods anymore that are too dangerous to enter?

True. I didn’t exactly grow up weathy & have commuted by foot or bus through many bad neighborhoods. But what protects you there is common sense, awareness of your surroundings and not sticking your nose where it doesn’t belong. If there are buses & trains going through a bad neighborhood, or businesses where lots of different people work during the day, you’re not that likely to get killed.

But the truly bad, really dangerous neighborhoods don’t have people commuting through them everyday. They’re off the beaten path, isolated. You end up there by accident, taking a wrong turn.

I guess before we continue, do any neighborhoods like this still exist, or again, am I working off outdated information?

25

[nitpick]

Opie Taylor was a little readheaded kid, not a cop. Andy Taylor was a cop, but still by no means a racist. We southerners take our Andy Griffith very seriously, so tread lightly.

[/nitpick]

26

Cite, por favor?

27

Ya got me. But, I’ll work on it. If I can’t come up with something, I’ll gladly honor you with having set me straight. Thanks.

28

There are all-white neighborhoods in St. Louis that are classed as “rough.” These are the neighbohoods you traditionally hear as “don’t go there after dark.”

Mrs. Kunilou and I can personally attest that there are areas in a number of cities where either one of us may have been welcome as an individual, but we were not welcome as a couple.

29

I know of two neighborhoods I’d qualify as bad. Really really bad. One is the Robert Taylor homes on south State street in Chicago, and the other is Cabrini Green.

Cabrini Green is no more, it’s been torn down. It was a government housing project that was supposedly very nice in the 50s, but went downhill. The cops only went in with heavy backup and generally wouldn’t even drive through without three cruisers together. Firemen going there to put out fires were regularly pelted with rocks while trying to douse the flames. You could get in and go out as long as you had business there, but you had better have business there to get through. This was the place where Girl X was immolated with gasoline a couple years ago if anyone remembers that. I remember stories about the gangs there that had snipers on the roof of the buildings who would take care of things. No cite, no evidence, just stories. But, I did know this little Jewish lawyer who used to go into Cabrini to smoke rocks and they never bothered him. Who knows.

The Robert Taylor homes was a much larger government housing project. I don’t have a whole lot of stories about it, but I can tell you that driving past it on the Dan Ryan it seemed like maybe one out of 20 windows in the buildings were burned out. Up close you could see bullet holes in many of the walls on the exterior of the buildings. On Saturdays, the cops used to pull up the most amazing group of vehicles together to service the area. Squad cars, ambulances, fire trucks, paddy wagons, you name it. Saturday night must have been a lot of fun there. I think there were about 30-50 vehicles staged at the northernmost building. The kids in my neighborhood played kick the can or whatever, and the kids in that neighborhood played Bottle Fight. No joke. They threw empty glass bottles at each other for fun.

I didn’t go there, hang out there, conduct business there, or know a whole lot of people who did. Occasionally I’d end up there on a wrong turn and see something that made Boys in the Hood look like Little Red Riding Hood, though.

Now I live in LA and I swear to you there is nothing here to compare with those two places. People say these neighborhoods are tough, but it’s nothing compared to that. Nothing at all. I go through South Central and never get hassled or have anything thrown at my car or get shot at. Chicago though, you never know.

I’ll tell you where black folks used to fear to go in Chicago. There is a small Irish neighborhood on the south side where Mayor Daley grew up. I have information I trust about 50/50 that the cops used to shoot black people for target practice around there.

I’ve never seen a solid white neighborhood anywhere near as bad as Cabrini or Taylor, but then again there are few neighborhoods anywhere on the planet as bad as those. I suppose if you find a place where there are rampant cannibals or constant civil war or something along those lines it’s worse. I hear some parts of South America are completely unsafe at all times for all human beings. Hell, there are parts of the Phillipines I hear are just suicidal.

Most of Chicago was pretty good though. The entire north side used to be peachy. I hear that once Cabrini was torn down everybody from the projects moved to Rogers Park and that part of town got a little rougher, and Rolling Meadows is now Rolling Ghettos.

I don’t think it’s a black thing or a white thing really. I’m sure there’s some serious backwoods Flannel Army places where nobody’s safe. You pile that much poverty on floor after floor after floor and you’re going to end up with trouble.

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Are there any “good” black neighborhoods in the US?

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Good black neighborhoods: Bridgehampton on Long Island, for one, unless it’s changed. Haven’t been through in a while.

Evil white neighborhoods: Queens Village, eastern Queens is a good place to get beaten up by young white short-haired dead-end drunk guys.

32

Cumming (seriously) Ga, Forsyth county, a suburb just to the North of Atlanta up until no more than 20 years ago was “no man’s land” if you weren’t white. Progress has worked a world of change in that part of the world though. It’s not nearly as weird as it used to be and much more “incorporated.” Forsyth Co, Ga, of the “Don’t let the sun set on your black ass in Forsyth County” road sign variety. Literally, up until 20 years ago it was practically against the law for blacks to reside there. This is a suburb of Atlanta, Ga. A historical revision is pending.

Aside from the racist motif, I do remember some inner city “white” neighborhoods that you could get your ass kicked in very easily regardless of creed when I was growing up in Atlanta. Back in those days Hotlanta was the homicide capital of the U.S. Lots of issues.

33

Yeah, there’s a really good one on the south side of Chicago, can’t remember what it’s called. Very nice. Brownstones, most of the streets are one-way, and most of the entrances and exits are blocked off. I guess that makes it tough to just kind of wander in. I managed to on a wrong turn, but I was impressed. There’s a school and a couple stores in there, all very nice. It’s right by LSD and 75th. Anybody know what it’s called?

34

South Shore.

35

Tomndebb, could you weigh in here? I’m a Cleveland ex-pat (30 years gone). Would Warrensville Heights qualify? I understand it to be almost exclusively black now. (As opposed to Shaker, which is a mix.)

36

…are neighborhoods where you notice the following things:
-stores have those roll-down metal doors, and are locked up tight by 5 PM!
-nobody is on the sidewalks after dark
-homeless people crowding street corners
-many burnt-out abandoned buildings
What makes YOU the target of criminals? Being out on the street, alone, and vulnerable, and looking like you have money, jewelry on you. I was once in the area just east of the LA airport (Lenox)-I had walked a bit too far from my hotel, and I was stoppedby a plainclothes policeman (he was black). he told me to leave immediately, as the area was extremely dangerous (it turned out there was a gang war on). I took his advice and hightailed it back to my hotel!

37

Warrensville is certainly a black community (13,000 blacks out of 14,000 people). It is also a livable area. My impression is that is suffers, somewhat, in the way that all the older, inner suburbs do, regarding crime and poverty. Certainly, it is no crime-ridden hell-hole. (I’ve don’t know how the crime statistics of the city are affected by having Randall Park Mall and three separate business strips and a racetrack at the south end of town.)
Warrensville Heights OH Crime Statistics (2001)

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Little red-haired, freckle-faced cops? That doesn’t sound too threatening to me.

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“I’m gonna enforce the law upside somebody’s haid, Paw!”

40

Grundy County, TN. I recall a friend telling me of a cross-country bicycle trip, going thru Grundy County. When they were going to bed down for the night, the local Sheriff insisted on having them stay in the local jail. Not because he wanted to keep an eye on them, but he was worried that the locals would hurt them. They’d had a bit of it that day, as a full beer can was hurled at them from a passing car, with a mean bruise on my friend’s back. And these were white guys, just bicycling thru.

I’ve been to that county since, and it 's pretty rough.