# Any Boeing B-17 Fans out there? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 22, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264 "2009-05-22T02:23:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/1 "2009-05-22T02:23:58Z")
I know there must be one or two of you… Last weekend, I succumbed to temptation and sprung for a ride on the Collings Foundation’s [“Nine-O-Nine”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-O-Nine). Every summer they tour the country to give people a chance to check out their magnificently restored warbirds. It has to be one of the coolest things I’ve ever experienced. The icing on the cake was sharing the ride with a WWII vet who piloted a B-17. I asked him some mundane question about how cold it was, and he replied “That was the least of our worries!” He went on to talk about having to bail out when the plane was shot down on a mission over Stuttgart. Later he went on to be a B-29 flight instructor. It was an honor to share the flight with him. I’ve been a fan of the Flying Fortress for more than four decades. It goes back to watching “Twelve O’Clock High” on ABC in the mid-60s, making the Airfix and Revell models, even asking for [Edward Jablonski’s excellent book](http://www.amazon.com/Flying-Fortress-Illustrated-Biography-B-17s/dp/B0006BN168/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242958409&sr=1-2) for a birthday present. My bomber geekdom continued to manifest itself over the years as I made pilgrimages to fly-ins and aviation museums far and wide–from Palm Springs to Hendon in the UK. Of course, the original “12 O’Clock” movie starring Gregory Peck was required viewing. I also sought out both the theatrical and documentary films recounting the tale of the legendary Memphis Belle. You can imagine my disappointment when I tried to visit the Belle on Mud Island and found that the plane was no longer on public display. (Happily, it was rescued by The Smithsonian is currently being restored.) If you want to tag along on my Flying Fortress ride, I pasted a few video clips together here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr82ZhzLYVM](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr82ZhzLYVM) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/2 "2009-05-22T02:43:05Z")
My first bomber model was an Avro Lancaster ‘Dam Buster’, and my dad was stationed in Lancaster (FAA) at the time; so the Lanc has been my favourite bomber since childhood. Were it not for nostalgia, the B-17E would be on top. When I moved in with dad, there was a B-17 at the fire base at WJF. I’ve never flown in one, but **Spiny Norman** and I got to crawl around in one at the Chino air show a couple of years ago. As for _12 O’Clock High_, someone produced replicas of the [Robin Hood Hummel mug](http://www.classicfilmfreak.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/twelve-o-clock-high-part-one-01-04-519882.jpg) back in the '80s. I bought two from the first run; one numbered, and one not. 🆒 Here’s a rarity: a [P-51B Mustang](http://www.flickr.com/photos/27492458@N05/3537089690/). I snapped the photos last week. D-models abound. When I was at an air show at Edwards AFB several years ago I saw a P-51D (in RAF livery) without the vertical stab extension and thought myself lucky to have seen such an early model. I never thought I’d see a -B. I had to point it out to my friend, as we’re having a disagreement over which is prettier: the Mustang or the Spitfire. I just had to rub his nose in the Spitfire-derived Malcolm Hood. 😃 EDIT: Incidentally, [here’s a shot of the back of my A-2 jacket](http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/llaaksonen/Visibility_Perfect.jpg?t=1242960229). ‘Visibility Perfect’ was a B-17E from the 401st Bomb Group, 8th Air Force. [Here’s a closer look at the pin-up](http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/llaaksonen/VisibilityPerfect.jpg?t=1242960313). ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/3 "2009-05-22T02:49:26Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > My first bomber model was an Avro Lancaster ‘Dam Buster’. There’s a remake of the 1955 movie in the works…with Peter Jackson (!) producing. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/4 "2009-05-22T02:50:50Z")
I still haven’t heard if Jackson is going to keep the dog’s name. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/5 "2009-05-22T02:59:44Z")
I’ve always been a fan since I was a little kid- my grandfather was a flight engineer on a B-17 during the 2nd half of 1943, and his stories have always fascinated me. Was the B-17 flight as cold as he said, or did you guys not go all that high? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/6 "2009-05-22T03:00:12Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > If you want to tag along on my Flying Fortress ride, I pasted a few video clips together here: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr82ZhzLYVM](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nr82ZhzLYVM) Awesome. I think I missed my opportunity this year. I’ll have to make a point to look out for rides in the future. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/7 "2009-05-22T03:17:02Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Was the B-17 flight as cold as he said, or did you guys not go all that high? We were only flying at around 1500 ft–on a hot day, to boot. I was quite comfortable in shorts and a t-shirt. During the war, missions were flown in the neighborhood of 20,000 ft, requiring oxygen masks and heated suits and gloves. ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/8 "2009-05-22T03:19:37Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > I know there must be one or two of you… Any WW2 aircraft has always gotten a favourable response from me, regardless if it wa a PBY catalina, B-17,B-25 , or even odd aircraft like the Boulton Paul Defiant. The thing with the 17 , however was that it was always more cool to think of being in the ball turret , or the top turret rather than flying the plane. Airfix catalouges were always lying around my home Declan ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/9 "2009-05-22T03:32:27Z")
My grandfather was a B-17 pilot, so I have a special fondness for them (I _think_ it was the E model…but my whole family all has a framed copy of a picture that we are told is his plane, and according to my brother, who is the biggest aviation buff in the family, it’s the G model…so there’s some debate over either what he flew, or if that’s really his plane in the photo). He was shot down during a mission and was a POW for the last few months of the war. And did anyone else play the fuck out of the B-17 flying fortress game from the early 90’s? ---
**Author:** ![Declan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecae2f/32.png) [@Declan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Declan)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/10 "2009-05-22T03:44:33Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > And did anyone else play the fuck out of the B-17 flying fortress game from the early 90’s? No , I made the mistake of playing F-16 Falcon and other variants. It gets a bit tedious when your trying to zap a bf-109 with a fifty cal, while looking for beyond visual range missiles that dont exist on that plane. After that , I just could not get into any video game that did not mimic real life sensors, so I played Red Storm Rising , but any WW2 fleet boat game was boring to me in comparison. Same with those WW1 Battleship games. Declan ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/11 "2009-05-22T03:44:36Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Here’s a rarity: a [P-51B Mustang](http://www.flickr.com/photos/27492458@N05/3537089690/). I snapped the photos last week. D-models abound. When I was at an air show at Edwards AFB several years ago I saw a P-51D (in RAF livery) without the vertical stab extension and thought myself lucky to have seen such an early model. I never thought I’d see a -B. I had to point it out to my friend, as we’re having a disagreement over which is prettier: the Mustang or the Spitfire. I just had to rub his nose in the Spitfire-derived Malcolm Hood. 😃 Speaking of obscure derivatives and B-17s, I’ve seen a B-17D. Sort of. I took a tour of the National Air & Space Museum’s storage shops several years ago. They had [The Swoose](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Swoose), the oldest surviving B-17 in pieces in one of the warehouses. ---
**Author:** ![movingfinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@movingfinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/movingfinger)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/12 "2009-05-22T03:58:12Z")
About a year ago the Torrance, California, airport was graced with a visit from a B-17 named Aluminum Overcast. It never saw combat, being built near the end of the production run and used as a trainer. I was struck by the fact that B-17s were not terribly large airplanes, although during WW2 they must have been considered huge, what with four engines. I joined a long line of visitors to climb into the plane and wriggle my way through it. I, ah, am not exactly skinny, and found quarters very tight in most places. A crew member should have been of the size of a jockey to be comfortable on long flights. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/13 "2009-05-22T04:07:08Z")
I’ve walked through a B-17 and a Lancaster. Never flown in one, although one day I’ll probably pony up for a ride. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/14 "2009-05-22T06:00:58Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Here’s a rarity: a [P-51B Mustang](http://www.flickr.com/photos/27492458@N05/3537089690/). I snapped the photos last week. D-models abound. When I was at an air show at Edwards AFB several years ago I saw a P-51D (in RAF livery) without the vertical stab extension and thought myself lucky to have seen such an early model. I never thought I’d see a -B. I had to point it out to my friend, as we’re having a disagreement over which is prettier: the Mustang or the Spitfire. I just had to rub his nose in the Spitfire-derived Malcolm Hood. 😃 Ah yes, the Spitfire is definitely prettier. The Mustang is very cool, but it’s not pretty in the way a Spitfire is. This is assuming the Spitfire is a more traditional model such as a MkV with full wingtips. > [@](#): > > EDIT: Incidentally, [here’s a shot of the back of my A-2 jacket](http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/llaaksonen/Visibility_Perfect.jpg?t=1242960229). ‘Visibility Perfect’ was a B-17E from the 401st Bomb Group, 8th Air Force. [Here’s a closer look at the pin-up](http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m305/llaaksonen/VisibilityPerfect.jpg?t=1242960313). Just how many flying jackets do you have? On the general subject of WWII aeroplanes, here is a (barely recognisable) Liberator that I occasionally get to see. It’s in a remote area so is not likely to be moved. [Engine and ball turret.](http://users.tpg.com.au/skogfish/Truscott/IMGP1833.JPG) [Wing.](http://users.tpg.com.au/skogfish/Truscott/IMGP1823.JPG) [Main landing gear.](http://users.tpg.com.au/skogfish/Truscott/IMGP1827.JPG) (Note the condition of the oleo strut compared to the other metal parts.) P.S., I’ve flown in a P51-D and a DC-3 but nothing as big or cool as a B-17. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/15 "2009-05-22T09:05:38Z")
It’s too bad David Simmons is no longer with us although his plane was the B-26. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/16 "2009-05-22T09:26:36Z")
> [@movingfinger](#): > > About a year ago the Torrance, California, airport was graced with a visit from a B-17 named Aluminum Overcast. It never saw combat, being built near the end of the production run and used as a trainer. > > I was struck by the fact that B-17s were not terribly large airplanes, although during WW2 they must have been considered huge, what with four engines. True dat. I’ve been around the American hall at Duxford, and even the B-29 doesn’t look all that huge. Mind you, that’s because every exhibit in the place is jostling for room around a B-52, next to which most planes can be forgiven for looking kinda teeny. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/17 "2009-05-22T11:20:25Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > My grandfather was a B-17 pilot, so I have a special fondness for them (I _think_ it was the E model…but my whole family all has a framed copy of a picture that we are told is his plane, and according to my brother, who is the biggest aviation buff in the family, it’s the G model…so there’s some debate over either what he flew, or if that’s really his plane in the photo). > > He was shot down during a mission and was a POW for the last few months of the war. > > And did anyone else play the fuck out of the B-17 flying fortress game from the early 90’s? He certainly could have flown both, as the models were upgraded through the war. And as a WAG, if he was shot down in late 44 or early 45, he was probably in a later model at the time. According to [this site](http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/html/mshwb17f.htm), there were only 512 model Es built, and they were already being replaced by the model F in 1942 (more than 3,000 buildt). The model G was introduced in 1943 and there were more than 8,000 of them. Seems really unlikely he would still be in a model E near the end of the war. ---
**Author:** ![bannerrefugee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c68b51/32.png) [@bannerrefugee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bannerrefugee)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/18 "2009-05-22T12:33:09Z")
They blew up a few of my wife’s family. I don’t like them. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/19 "2009-05-22T12:48:36Z")
I’ve flown [this](http://vintageflyingmuseum.org/slideshow/oldphotos/pages/fortress3.htm) gal a little. (Yep, it’s in my logbook). I vounteered on the crew several years ago, and rode along for several airshows (along with MizPullin). Managed to get my dad a ride along for an airshow as well. My son’s volunteering with them this summer. Hopefully he’ll get to take some flights. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264/20 "2009-05-22T12:55:38Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > I’ve flown [this](http://vintageflyingmuseum.org/slideshow/oldphotos/pages/fortress3.htm) gal a little. (Yep, it’s in my logbook). I vounteered on the crew several years ago, and rode along for several airshows (along with MizPullin). Managed to get my dad a ride along for an airshow as well. > > My son’s volunteering with them this summer. Hopefully he’ll get to take some flights. What model is that, an E or an F? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-boeing-b-17-fans-out-there/497264.md?page=2)