# Any chance Colin Powell will endorse Obama? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 27, 2008, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393 "2008-06-27T03:16:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![grayhairedmomma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/47e85d/32.png) [@grayhairedmomma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grayhairedmomma)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/21 "2008-06-27T15:37:57Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] “House boy”? “Masters”? If any conservative had used this type of racist rhetoric against a liberal black person, can you imagine the uproar? But since it’s Colin Powell being targeted, I guess it’s OK, huh? [/QUOTE] No it isn’t okay. It’s a despicable thing to say, and I’m one who feels the same as **Shayna**. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/22 "2008-06-27T15:44:02Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] “House boy”? “Masters”? If any conservative had used this type of racist rhetoric against a liberal black person, can you imagine the uproar? But since it’s Colin Powell being targeted, I guess it’s OK, huh? [/QUOTE] I don’t think it’s racist, just inaccurate in Powell’s case. It certainly can be used accurately (I present Juan Williams on Fox News as exhibit A). Also, it would make no sense for a liberal to be labeled in that way. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/23 "2008-06-27T15:49:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t think it’s racist, just inaccurate in Powell’s case. Describing a 21st century black man in slavery terms? Yeah, that’s racist. Maybe Merijeek intended his statement to be ironic. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/24 "2008-06-27T15:59:49Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] Describing a 21st century black man in slavery terms? Yeah, that’s racist. Maybe Merijeek intended his statement to be ironic. [/QUOTE] It’s not racist at all. It’s a reference to self-abasement, tokenism and sycophancy. In order for an insult to be “racist.” it would have to imply that there is some failing in a person’s _per se_ genetic, “racial” makeup. A “house boy” describes _behavior_, not inherent genetic characteristics. I would also point at that these kinds of terms and references “House boy,” “Tom,” etc). come _from_ the black community. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/25 "2008-06-27T16:04:42Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] “House boy”? “Masters”? If any conservative had used this type of racist rhetoric against a liberal black person, can you imagine the uproar? But since it’s Colin Powell being targeted, I guess it’s OK, huh? [/QUOTE] Suddenly offended by that kind of thing? How touching. Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but I’ve never been one of the “Hang the bastard! He said ‘niggardly’, and I don’t know what it means, but it sounds like a bad word! Get him!” type of libruls. He’s been a good little bitch, and I expect him to continue. I might be wrong, and in such a case I would be surprised. I could have said “a good little soldier”, but he wasn’t. He obeyed his oaths selectively. -Jo ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/26 "2008-06-27T16:12:37Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Suddenly offended by that kind of thing? How touching. [/quote] Please point to any instance on this board where I’ve ever condoned any sort of racist thought or words. Or you can point to any time I’ve used blatantly racist language like you did. > [@](#): > > Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but I’ve never been one of the “Hang the bastard! He said ‘niggardly’, and I don’t know what it means, but it sounds like a bad word! Get him!” type of libruls. You didn’t hurt my feelings at all. I just find it funny how liberals can get away with saying racist things without being subject to the same standard as conservatives. And it’s far from the same thing as “niggardly.” The statement you made is a statement that has clear implications and connotations, all of which are negative and only apply to the black race. Perhaps you’re not a racist, but you certainly used a racist statement. > [@Diogenes](#): > > It’s not racist at all. It’s a reference to self-abasement, tokenism and sycophancy. In order for an insult to be “racist.” it would have to imply that there is some failing in a person’s per se genetic, “racial” makeup. A “house boy” describes behavior, not inherent genetic characteristics. Don’t be dense. He’s implying that Powell is a “house nigger,” in the parlance of days past. It’s a statement that could only be made about a black person. And if you don’t think it’s racist, why don’t you call the next black person you meet a “house boy” and see how he reacts. > [@](#): > > I would also point at that these kinds of terms and references “House boy,” “Tom,” etc). come from the black community. So does “nigga.” Ever call a black person that? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/27 "2008-06-27T16:13:36Z")
[QUOTE=Merijeek] Suddenly offended by that kind of thing? How touching. Sorry if it hurts your feelings, but I’ve never been one of the “Hang the bastard! He said ‘niggardly’, and I don’t know what it means, but it sounds like a bad word! Get him!” type of libruls. He’s been a good little bitch, and I expect him to continue. I might be wrong, and in such a case I would be surprised. I could have said “a good little soldier”, but he wasn’t. He obeyed his oaths selectively. [/QUOTE] HA! You also could have said one of a thousand other things—THAT WERE NOT RACIST. But you didn’t. Now you’re trying to say that calling a Powell a “house boy” is not racist, or as racist as “niggardly”. The amusement level rises considerably. But by all means, keep digging. It’s nice to see one’s true feeling surface. Especially after they’ve been tweaked by a whoosh. Yep, it’s gonna be a great day, my little marionette! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/28 "2008-06-27T16:15:48Z")
Your missing the point, **Dio.** The real issue is pointing out that the lefty-liberals are all a bunch of hypocrites, unlike the paladins of virtue. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/29 "2008-06-27T16:24:11Z")
[QUOTE=Renob] Don’t be dense. He’s implying that Powell is a “house nigger,” in the parlance of days past. It’s a statement that could only be made about a black person. [/quote] But it can’t be made about _all_ black people, which means it can’t be racist. It’s not a term used to denigrate race, but to denigrate self-loathing or disrespect from _within_ that social subset (and inserting the N-word is trying to cheat the argument). > [@](#): > > And if you don’t think it’s racist, why don’t you call the next black person you meet a “house boy” and see how he reacts. That doesn’t make sense. The “next black person,” probably will not BE a"house boy," but if I ever run into Juan Williams, I’ll have no problem telling him what I think he is. > [@](#): > > So does “nigga.” Ever call a black person that? Never had the urge. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/30 "2008-06-27T16:27:36Z")
[QUOTE=magellan01] HA! You also could have said one of a thousand other things—THAT WERE NOT RACIST. But you didn’t. Now you’re trying to say that calling a Powell a “house boy” is not racist, or as racist as “niggardly”. The amusement level rises considerably. But by all means, keep digging. It’s nice to see one’s true feeling surface. Especially after they’ve been tweaked by a whoosh. Yep, it’s gonna be a great day, my little marionette! [/QUOTE] “House boy” isn’t racist, period. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/31 "2008-06-27T16:34:38Z")
Oh, for crying out loud. A monkey doll of Obama is racist, but calling Powell a houseboy who won’t cross his masters isn’t. That is one of the biggest crocks of rationalizing BS I’ve seen come out of you, **Dio**. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/32 "2008-06-27T16:35:30Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] “House boy” isn’t racist, period. [/QUOTE] Are you fucking kidding me?!!! This is as good as some of your attempts at defending yourself in that thread about music. Maybe I was wrong letting you off the hook there. Regardless, this ridiculous attempt to excuse what IS clearly a racist term is not even worthy of any further debate. But if you don’t believe me, try using the term on the next few black guys you run into. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/33 "2008-06-27T16:39:40Z")
Fascinating. By any chance, have you something to say about Colin Powell? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/34 "2008-06-27T16:42:01Z")
I think we’re learning a lot about conservative ignorance in this thread. You guys really have no idea what makes a word racist, do you? I notice yoiu guys are getting louder and more incredulous but not onbe og=f you has been able to explain how the word is racist, nor has anyone attempted to respond to my actual explanations as to why it is _not_ racist. You guys are just desperate to catch a liberal in a moment of hypocrisy and it’s driving you crazy that you can’t really demonstrate it. Tell me why the word is racist. Don’t just jump up and down. Actually make an argument. Define “racist,” and then explain why “house boy” fits that definition. I will then be happy to demolish whatever specious case you try to cobble together. Have at it. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/35 "2008-06-27T16:44:17Z")
“House Boy” couldn’t be used on a white person, either. It calls attention to the ethnicity of Colin Powell (and describes his relationship with Bush, the “White Matsa”), when it should really have no bearing on his being loyal to Bush. I have never seen “House Boy” used in a positive manner. It always describes a subservient African-American working for a white employer (or slave owner), and implys that the African-American is some kind of “Uncle Tom”, or betrayer of the ideal of equality. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/36 "2008-06-27T16:46:01Z")
> [@](#): > > But if you don’t believe me, try using the term on the next few black guys you run into. Once again, this is inane. The word doesn’t _apply_ to all black people. That’s why it’s _not racist_. This is like saying “if you don’t think ‘wife beater’ is racist, then call the next white guy you see a wife beater.” It makes no sense. It’s a non-sequitur. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/37 "2008-06-27T16:46:03Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It’s not racist at all. It’s a reference to self-abasement, tokenism and sycophancy. In order for an insult to be “racist.” it would have to imply that there is some failing in a person’s _per se_ genetic, “racial” makeup. A “house boy” describes _behavior_, not inherent genetic characteristics. [/QUOTE] This isn’t a fight worth having, dude; it’s just a shitty thing to say for any reason and **Renob** is right to call **Merijeek** on it. It’s not a term that calls all black people stupid or inferior, but it compares them to stereotypes of historical black slaves. It’s really not that hard to see why it’s offensive. You appear to be relying on the technicality that it’s not racist because it’s an insult only to specific black people and not to all black people. But here’s where that falls down: for one thing, it’s clearly racially derived, and for another, making a comparison of one black people to slaves based on their behavior is an offense against black people, at least as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/38 "2008-06-27T16:50:06Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] “House Boy” couldn’t be used on a white person, either. It calls attention to the ethnicity of Colin Powell (and describes his relationship with Bush, the “White Matsa”), when it should really have no bearing on his being loyal to Bush. I have never seen “House Boy” used in a positive manner. It always describes a subservient African-American working for a white employer (or slave owner), and implys that the African-American is some kind of “Uncle Tom”, or betrayer of the ideal of equality. [/QUOTE] None of that is racist. Just because it’s insulting, doesn’t mean it’s racist. And it isn’t the mere employment by white people, it’s the selling out of one’s own cultural group for the benefit of another. When Juan Williams is trotted out by Fox News for the expressed purpose of being the black guy who trashes Obama, he’s a house boy. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/39 "2008-06-27T16:53:05Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] This isn’t a fight worth having, dude; it’s just a shitty thing to say for any reason and **Renob** is right to call **Merijeek** on it. It’s not a term that calls all black people stupid or inferior, but it compares them to stereotypes of historical black slaves. It’s really not that hard to see why it’s offensive. You appear to be relying on the technicality that it’s not racist because it’s an insult only to specific black people and not to all black people. But here’s where that falls down: for one thing, it’s clearly racially derived, and for another, making a comparison of one black people to slaves based on their behavior is an offense against black people, at least as far as I’m concerned. [/QUOTE] What’s shitty is to call someone a racist without cause. It’s not a racist term, period, and it does npot compare black people to slaves. It compares a certain kind of _behavior_ to the behavior of those who _betrayed_ slaves. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2008, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393/40 "2008-06-27T16:54:57Z")
[QUOTE=mlees] I have never seen “House Boy” used in a positive manner. It always describes a subservient African-American working for a white employer [/QUOTE] I thought it referred to Asian employees. Perhpas I see too many old films. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-colin-powell-will-endorse-obama/454393.md?page=3)