# Any chance of a "essential government employee" strike? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251 "2019-01-05T16:51:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/1 "2019-01-05T16:51:14Z")
Actually looking for a factual answer, but figure it will get GDey anyway… Given Trump has said he’s happy to shut down the government indefinitely. Is it remotely possible that some of the “essential government employees” that are currently working for free could decide, en masse, that they aren’t doing so anymore (I am not sure strike is the right word, as they deciding to not to work for free is hardly a strike IMO). Is this something thats been discussed during this, or other shutdowns? Is there a union that represents a large enough portion of them to make a difference? (TSA agents have apparently been [calling in sick during](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/politics/shutdown-tsa-screening/index.html)the shutdown). A mass walk out by them alone would shutdown the airline network, and definitely force an end to the shutdown IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/2 "2019-01-05T17:02:36Z")
The AFGE represents federal employees, to answer your question about that, including TSA employees. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/3 "2019-01-05T17:12:01Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > A mass walk out by them alone would shutdown the airline network, and definitely force an end to the shutdown IMO. By what mechanism? Even if the every airline is grounded, probably costing billions in GDP every hour, Trump still doesn’t have to sign the bill. The Republicans in the Senate still don’t have to agree to vote for the bill if the democrats wanted to go for a 2/3 supermajority. If the house holds impeachment proceedings, agrees with a 60% vote that this is basically treason, this doesn’t mean sufficient Republican senators will vote to have Trump removed from office. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/4 "2019-01-05T17:22:20Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > By what mechanism? Even if the every airline is grounded, probably costing billions in GDP every hour, Trump still doesn’t have to sign the bill. The Republicans in the Senate still don’t have to agree to vote for the bill if the democrats wanted to go for a 2/3 supermajority. If the house holds impeachment proceedings, agrees with a 60% vote that this is basically treason, this doesn’t mean sufficient Republican senators will vote to have Trump removed from office. If the airline network is shutdown (or even if there is a realistic chance of it shutting down) SOMEONE will fold. Either Trump himself, enough republicans for a supermajority, or the democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/5 "2019-01-05T17:22:41Z")
I’m pretty certain that federal employees are not allowed to go out on strike. > **[Federal Service Labor-Management Relations Statute](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Service_Labor-Management_Relations_Statute)** > > The Federal Service Labor-Management Relations Statute (FSLMRS aka "the Statute") is a federal law which establishes collective bargaining rights for most employees of the federal government in the United States. It was established under Title VII of the Civil Service Reform Act of 1978. > The FLRA was adopted after President Jimmy Carter sought legislation to bring comprehensive reform to civil service system and regularize federal labor relations. The Statute consolidated the functions of the F... So that’s a no, from a legal perspective. They could go out on strike but would not be protected from all being fired by the government for doing so. I’m pretty certain that what griffin is getting at is would such an action place enough pressure on either the President or both houses of congress to incentivize either to end the impasse. That’s an unknown. But moving the stories from ‘the National Parks are closed’ to ‘You can’t fly to see grandma’ is a whole different level of pressure. It’d be interesting to see. ---
**Author:** ![BeenJammin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beenjammin/32/448_2.png) [@BeenJammin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeenJammin)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/6 "2019-01-05T17:37:53Z")
Had I recently flew away from home on business or pleasure and not returned yet, I’d be concerned at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/7 "2019-01-05T17:45:43Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I’m pretty certain that federal employees are not allowed to go out on strike. > > [Federal Service Labor-Management Relations Statute - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Service_Labor-Management_Relations_Statute) > > So that’s a no, from a legal perspective. Likewise there are laws prohibiting involuntary servitude. Every time this situation arises, I mention that if I were not being paid per previous agreement, I’d stay home. ---
**Author:** ![ctnguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@ctnguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ctnguy)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/8 "2019-01-05T19:16:34Z")
In any sane legal system, an employer would be required to pay employees for work performed. However, any sane system would also not allow leaders to shut down the entire national government because of a fit of pique, so… ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/9 "2019-01-05T20:00:29Z")
Federal employees may not be allowed to strike, but there’s no law against a sick-out, as the TSA members are doing. Union officials have been careful to point out that the union isn’t encouraging members to call in sick, which might be construed as a strike. Instead, word spread among TSA employees at some airports. Now that it’s been in the news, it’ll be interesting to see if more federal workers call in sick. I’m really torn on this issue. I have a family member who’s been furloughed and one who has to work without pay, and it’s a serious hardship. OTOH, the wall would be an extremely expensive and ineffective waste of money. Even if Congress compromised and voted to fund the wall at a later date and only under X circumstances, I can’t see Trump acquiescing. What other compromises might there be? Build a very _short_ wall? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/10 "2019-01-05T20:15:21Z")
Yeah I’m surprised it’s not being discussed. It seems like the public would be overwhelmingly in support of the strikers. And whatever the law says the govenrm ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/11 "2019-01-05T20:18:16Z")
Yeah I’m surprised it’s not being discussed. It seems like the public would be overwhelmingly in support of the strikers. And whatever the law says the government is not going to lay off the majority of the TSA(or whatever other vital arm of the government), as that would be just as catostophic. And it would almost certainly work, even the threat would be good enough IMO. For all the tough words, faced with something genuinely catostophic for their constituents, someone will fold. ---
**Author:** ![SmartAleq](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smartaleq/32/163_2.png) [@SmartAleq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAleq)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/12 "2019-01-05T20:34:46Z")
It’s times like these that I actually applaud the “gig economy” as a lifesaver–in general, it’s just a way for corporations to abdicate their responsibility to pay their employees an adequate living wage and to offer benefits, but having a simple means for a furloughed federal employee to sign up to deliver food or packages or do Uber/Lyft without having to go through an extensive hiring process is pretty damned nice. They can keep the lights on and food on the table while the overpaid assholes in Congress have their fucking pissing contests and send the exact same message as a strike without falling afoul of those disgusting laws that force them into indentured servitude. I really hope the lot of those critically important federal employees get themselves a fantastic case of the “fuck you flu” and actually show the nation what a REAL shutdown looks like. It’s way past time we stop it with this constant brinksmanship and take shutdown threats off the table as a bargaining chip. I also think no one in Congress should be either paid for the time the government is shut down over funding fights nor should they be allowed to leave DC. Stay there unpaid until you get the fucking job done, you worthless shits, and no, you do not get retroactive pay when you finally get your shit together. Congress works for free when they play games with everyone else’s paycheck. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/13 "2019-01-05T22:23:00Z")
How is it that the federal government can require some federal workers to work without paying them? Isn’t that a breach of the 13th Amendment? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/14 "2019-01-05T22:28:24Z")
Also, as of today, the striking government employees can just say “Hey, its what the POTUS said he f\*cking wanted” > [@](#): > > Along with saying the word “fuck” at least three times throughout the meeting, the president bizarrely stated that he did not want to call the partial government shutdown a “shutdown,” according to the source. Instead, he referred to it as a “strike.” (Many of the federal employees affected by the weeks-long shutdown have been working without pay. That is essentially the opposite of a strike.) ttps://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-referred-to-shutdown-as-strike-in-profanity-laced-meeting-with-democratic-leaders?utm\_source=fark&utm\_medium=website&utm\_content=link&ICID=ref\_fark ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/15 "2019-01-05T22:29:10Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > How is it that the federal government can require some federal workers to work without paying them? > > Isn’t that a breach of the 13th Amendment? It’s not a 13th Amendment breach because the workers have another option, they can quit. They choose to stay Federal employees in the expectation that they will eventually be paid, and also for the other benefits. (and for the fact that if they quit, getting reinstated would be really difficult) However there do seem to be laws on this, [Federal workers illegally forced to work without pay during shutdown, per lawsuit – ThinkProgress](https://thinkprogress.org/federal-workers-illegally-forced-work-without-pay-shutdown-lawsuit-says-dee44a7ea97b/) , and it appears that the ones who were forced to work without pay may eventually collect double the wages they were owed. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/16 "2019-01-05T22:31:50Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > It’s not a 13th Amendment breach because the workers have another option, they can quit. They choose to stay Federal employees in the expectation that they will eventually be paid, and also for the other benefits. (and for the fact that if they quit, getting reinstated would be really difficult) > > However there do seem to be laws on this, [Federal workers illegally forced to work without pay during shutdown, per lawsuit – ThinkProgress](https://thinkprogress.org/federal-workers-illegally-forced-work-without-pay-shutdown-lawsuit-says-dee44a7ea97b/) , and it appears that the ones who were forced to work without pay may eventually collect double the wages they were owed. I wouldn’t bank on it. This case is from 2013 and… > [@](#): > > Since this was a recent ruling, even though the lawsuit had been filed years earlier, not all of those employees have received their money yet, Also as far as I can work out that was just the handful who brought the court case not all the employees ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/17 "2019-01-05T22:35:12Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Actually looking for a factual answer, but figure it will get GDey anyway… > > Given Trump has said he’s happy to shut down the government indefinitely. Is it remotely possible that some of the “essential government employees” that are currently working for free could decide, en masse, that they aren’t doing so anymore (I am not sure strike is the right word, as they deciding to not to work for free is hardly a strike IMO). > > Is this something thats been discussed during this, or other shutdowns? Is there a union that represents a large enough portion of them to make a difference? (TSA agents have apparently been [calling in sick during](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/politics/shutdown-tsa-screening/index.html)the shutdown). A mass walk out by them alone would shutdown the airline network, and definitely force an end to the shutdown IMO. They could quit. If they did that en masse then it might be a problem, I suppose, though seems a low probability. They aren’t allowed to strike, afaik. I think this was resolved during the Carter or Reagan administration, though I might be mis-remembering as I don’t know that much about federal labor law to be honest. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/18 "2019-01-05T22:37:20Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > It’s not a 13th Amendment breach because the workers have another option, they can quit. They choose to stay Federal employees in the expectation that they will eventually be paid, and also for the other benefits. (and for the fact that if they quit, getting reinstated would be really difficult) That’s the other thought I had. They could also just threaten to resign en masse. It would have the same effect. If every TSA agent (or border patrol agent, or corrections officer) said the are going to resign with immediate effect in 72 hours, unless they start getting paid, then the shutdown would be sorted in no time. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/19 "2019-01-05T22:41:57Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > How is it that the federal government can require some federal workers to work without paying them? > > Isn’t that a breach of the 13th Amendment? AIUI, they’re not working for free, their pay is simply delayed but will eventually be paid in full. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2019, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/20 "2019-01-05T22:52:42Z")
Can Congress just find some way to pay them against the President’s wishes? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251.md?page=2)