# Any chance of a "essential government employee" strike? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251 "2019-01-05T16:51:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/61 "2019-01-06T13:21:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Can Congress, say, decide to offer interest-free loans to federal workers working without pay, equal to the amount of money they would have been making? Can Congress do anything (except launch an oversight investigation) without having it run past the Senate and approved by the president? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/62 "2019-01-06T13:53:22Z")
Nope. Any official act needs to pass both the house and the Senate and end up on the President’s desk. He may veto it - God knows - but it still has to take that path. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2019, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/63 "2019-01-06T14:00:51Z")
They should try. I mean, they should force the Republicans to shoot down a new bill to pay federal workers every day. Why not? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2019, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/64 "2019-01-06T14:05:21Z")
Oh, hell yes. No disputing that. Put them on record as not wanting to pay people for their work. Them’s some nice optics, there. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/65 "2019-01-06T14:18:51Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Really? I think it more likely that there’s a contingent out there that won’t give a f\*\*\* as long as their income is untouched and view government workers as sub-human servants. They’ll give a fuck when they can’t fly to visit Grandma. And the vast majority of people (even on the right) will blame the government, not the workers. Whether your in rural Mississippi or the upper east side EVERYONE will be pissed off at all the branches of government. Even the threat of that will end the shutdown ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2019, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/66 "2019-01-06T14:32:05Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > This is not as true as one might think. Following previous shutdowns, congress passed a bill paying workers for their time. But there’s no guarantee this will happen during the current or future shutdowns. > [@Broomstick](#): > > While that has been the case in prior shutdowns there is no guarantee that that will happen. Congress has to authorize the back pay every time. I don’t believe this is true. See, for example, the [OPM Guidance on Shutdowns](https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/pay-leave/furlough-guidance/guidance-for-shutdown-furloughs.pdf) from 2015. “Excepted” employees (i.e., those who are working) are guaranteed to be paid when funding is restored because their agency has incurred a financial obligation to them that must be settled. (Uncertainty over _when_ they get paid, of course, can cause a lot of anxiety). Furloughed employees are the more interesting category. There is no obligation to pay them for the time they spent not working. In every prior shutdown they have been paid, but there is no guarantee that this will happen. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/67 "2019-01-06T14:42:32Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > Furloughed employees are the more interesting category. There is no obligation to pay them for the time they spent not working. In every prior shutdown they have been paid, but there is no guarantee that this will happen. It’s an interesting question. Do you pay an employee for their work, or for being your employee? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/68 "2019-01-06T16:22:35Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > We couldn’t immediately replace all 11,000 fired ATC’s in 1981 even with utilizing military ATC’s - because the military needs some, too. Right now the system needs about 15,000 controllers on duty any given day. > > It takes 3 years to train a new controller. > > _At best_, if you fired all the current ATC’s, or they all walked off the job (or just a large percentage of them) you’d be under-staffed for _three years_ which means either limiting flights or accepting greater risk. In practice, it took about 10 years to fully re-staff the ATC system after 1981. I don’t see where we’d do it any faster these days. Easy. We get Mexican ATCs to land the planes. ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/69 "2019-01-06T18:10:16Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Easy. We get Mexican ATCs to land the planes. Brilliant! Since Mexicans are willing to work for less than Americans and the American ATCs aren’t making anything it means the Mexican ATCs would have to pay to work. And boom, Mexico just paid for the wall! ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2019, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/70 "2019-01-06T19:50:48Z")
> [@SamuelA](#): > > It’s not a 13th Amendment breach because the workers have another option, they can quit. They choose to stay Federal employees in the expectation that they will eventually be paid, and also for the other benefits. (and for the fact that if they quit, getting reinstated would be really difficult) > > However there do seem to be laws on this, [Federal workers illegally forced to work without pay during shutdown, per lawsuit – ThinkProgress](https://thinkprogress.org/federal-workers-illegally-forced-work-without-pay-shutdown-lawsuit-says-dee44a7ea97b/) , and it appears that the ones who were forced to work without pay may eventually collect double the wages they were owed. This is what I think will happen, if the shutdown lasts more than a few weeks: Federal employees will start quitting en masse. It would be the natural thing to do. If I had a job where I was expected to work without getting paid, with no prospects for getting paid indefinitely, and I had bills piling up, I would get another job that would actually pay me. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/71 "2019-01-07T02:53:41Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > We couldn’t immediately replace all 11,000 fired ATC’s in 1981 even with utilizing military ATC’s - because the military needs some, too. Right now the system needs about 15,000 controllers on duty any given day. > > It takes 3 years to train a new controller. > > _At best_, if you fired all the current ATC’s, or they all walked off the job (or just a large percentage of them) you’d be under-staffed for _three years_ which means either limiting flights or accepting greater risk. In practice, it took about 10 years to fully re-staff the ATC system after 1981. I don’t see where we’d do it any faster these days. From [here](https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IS.AIR.PSGR?locations=US) (graph) In 1981, 281 million passengers were carried in the US. In 2017 it was 849 million. In 1981 there seemed to be 12,000 ATC union members. The BLS reports 22,000 ATCs, more or less, in 2017. So it would indeed be a nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/72 "2019-01-07T15:56:39Z")
> [@Tempe\_Jeff](#): > > Why are you HONESTLY opposed? Historical precedent: > [@Rudyard Kipling](#): > > And that is called paying the Dane-geld; > But we’ve proved it again and again, > That _if once you have paid him the Dane-geld > You never get rid of the Dane_. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/73 "2019-01-07T17:13:00Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > I find it laughable that conservatives, who normally screech about wasteful spending, are practically lining up to throw tax money at such a dubious enterprise as The Wall. And I stated why I’m honestly opposed. It’s a misbegotten waste of money and resources. It is amazing. When it is something conservatives oppose, even something that cost a million dollars, they yell about fiscal responsibility. But, when it is $26 BILLION for a wall it’s a “rounding error.” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/74 "2019-01-07T17:25:41Z")
To repeat, about a thousand miles of the US/Mexico border is the Colorado and Rio Grande. You cannot build on someone else’s property, so this wall would end up block US citizens from access to the rivers. What is not incredibly stupid about that? — Meanwhile, it occurs to me that the Rs have long wanted to squeeze down the government. What better way to do that, while also kneecapping the deepstate than to make federal employees want to leave? All those workers who would rather not work for him anyway will wander off, and only the people who are loyal to him will stay. What a great way to clean house. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/75 "2019-01-07T18:28:30Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > To repeat, about a thousand miles of the US/Mexico border is the Colorado and Rio Grande. You cannot build on someone else’s property, so this wall would end up block US citizens from access to the rivers. What is not incredibly stupid about that? I’m not seeing the problem. By and large, people in that region _want_ the government to seize their lands and cut them off from the un-seized property on the other side of the wall. This is why they voted for Trump. If they didn’t want their land seized, they wouldn’t have voted for him. Shouldn’t they get what they asked for? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/76 "2019-01-07T18:35:16Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > They’ll give a fuck when they can’t fly to visit Grandma. And the vast majority of people (even on the right) will blame the government, not the workers. Whether your in rural Mississippi or the upper east side EVERYONE will be pissed off at all the branches of government. Maybe not after Fox runs the following story. Lazy spoiled elite federal workers are lying to to enable terrorists to sneak weapons on planes and prevent you from seeing your grandma and. We have video of an employee who called in “sick” yet is seen jogging, to the Whole Foods. Real American coal miners have lost their entire job, yet these government prima donnas can’t stand a mere 3 weeks off the government teet, spending your tax money on fancy tofu dogs. Is Soros behind this? Some people say yes! ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/77 "2019-01-07T18:53:12Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > I’m not seeing the problem. By and large, people in that region _want_ the government to seize their lands and cut them off from the un-seized property on the other side of the wall. This is why they voted for Trump. If they didn’t want their land seized, they wouldn’t have voted for him. Shouldn’t they get what they asked for? 😕 [right](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/2016_presidential_election%2C_results_by_congressional_district_(popular_vote_margin).svg/1024px-2016_presidential_election%2C_results_by_congressional_district_(popular_vote_margin).svg.png) ---
**Author:** ![JcWoman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jcwoman/32/2889_2.png) [@JcWoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JcWoman)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/78 "2019-01-07T18:54:41Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > TMeanwhile, it occurs to me that the Rs have long wanted to squeeze down the government. What better way to do that, while also kneecapping the deepstate than to make federal employees want to leave? All those workers who would rather not work for him anyway will wander off, and only the people who are loyal to him will stay. What a great way to clean house. Well, the idiot did promise during his campaign that he was going to “drain the swamp”. At the time I thought he meant congress and lobbyists and such. Maybe we’re now seeing that he actually meant the entire governmental system in DC. I’m mostly joking. I really don’t think he’s smart enough to play this much of a long game. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Bredin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@John\_Bredin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Bredin)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/79 "2019-01-07T19:48:13Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > We couldn’t immediately replace all 11,000 fired ATC’s in 1981 even with utilizing military ATC’s - because the military needs some, too. Right now the system needs about 15,000 controllers on duty any given day. > > It takes 3 years to train a new controller. > > _At best_, if you fired all the current ATC’s, or they all walked off the job (or just a large percentage of them) you’d be under-staffed for _three years_ which means either limiting flights or accepting greater risk. In practice, it took about 10 years to fully re-staff the ATC system after 1981. I don’t see where we’d do it any faster these days. I’m picturing suddenly subbing in Air Force controllers in 2019 being less like doing so in 1981 (airline deregulation was only 1978) and more like the [Army Air Mail fiasco of 1934](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Mail_scandal). :eek: ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/80 "2019-01-07T20:02:34Z")
[One passenger](https://www.newsweek.com/tsa-delays-flight-cancellations-travel-government-shutdown-airports-trump-1282137) _at Minneapolis-Saint Paul International Airport, Anna Gedstad, in a Sunday tweet, which has since gone viral, that a TSA agent responded to her question about removing her laptop from its case by saying, “I don’t care, I’m not getting paid.”_ We don’t need no stinkin’ strike! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251.md?page=5)