# Any chance of a "essential government employee" strike? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 5, 2019, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251 "2019-01-05T16:51:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/81 "2019-01-07T20:04:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Thanks. > > Question is - is the general public more used to air travel as a “right” nowadays, that they’d put up with more than a few days of that level of reduction? I don’t know about the US, but for us, air travel was much more of a luxury back then, there weren’t budget airlines or near as much air travel - buses and trains and roadtrips were still a viable option for holidays. Business travel wasn’t as much of a thing, either. Just looked it up, and US air passenger-miles went from 191 billion in 1980 to 670 billion in 2016, a 3.5-fold increase. By contrast, passenger-miles in light vehicles have gone from 2011 billion in 1980 to 3045 billion in 2016, a factor of onlly 1.5. [Source](https://www.bts.gov/content/us-passenger-miles) I think pretty obviously air travel plays a relatively larger role in today’s society than that of 1980. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/82 "2019-01-07T22:41:40Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > [right](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/2016_presidential_election%2C_results_by_congressional_district_(popular_vote_margin).svg/1024px-2016_presidential_election%2C_results_by_congressional_district_(popular_vote_margin).svg.png) [Texas and Arizona voted for Trump](http://www.270towin.com/presidential_map_new/maps/bRgO6.png). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [January 7, 2019, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/83 "2019-01-07T22:58:05Z")
> [@Tempe\_Jeff](#): > > Out of a Federal Budget approaching 5 Trillion Dollars; why are some so opposed to 26 Billion spent on ‘Infrastructure’ ? A) You can’t look at it as 25 billion out of a 5 trillion budget. It’s more like 25 billion out of a 1.2 trillion budget, since most of the Federal budget is mandatory spending on Social Security, Medicare and other programs that are required to be funded. The discretionary portion is about 1.2 trillion. B) Because 25 billion is a COLOSSAL amount of money in any real sense. More than NASA gets, and in the ballpark of what the DoE and HUD are slated to get. It’s the amount of the ENTIRE budget of the state of Georgia. And to spend that much on something that all sane people agree is not going to be helpful, and that the landowners on the border don’t want, and that is slated to be a massive boondoggle is just irresponsible. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/84 "2019-01-08T00:16:48Z")
> [@wguy123](#): > > It is amazing. When it is something conservatives oppose, even something that cost a million dollars, they yell about fiscal responsibility. But, when it is $26 BILLION for a wall it’s a “rounding error.” :rolleyes: Example: [John McCain complaining about $50,000 to study explosive detection methods.](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2015/05/07/mccain-report-pork/70978586/) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/85 "2019-01-08T00:44:32Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > [Texas and Arizona voted for Trump](http://www.270towin.com/presidential_map_new/maps/bRgO6.png). But when you look at the districts along the Mexican border, they all look blue, except for the expansive one that covers half of southern NM. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/86 "2019-01-08T00:57:06Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > But when you look at the districts along the Mexican border, they all look blue, except for the expansive one that covers half of southern NM. And the majority of voters voted against Trump, but we’re stuck with him anyway. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/87 "2019-01-08T00:58:59Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > We’ve pointed this out before but the vast majority of illegal immigrants come through legal points of entry and overstay visas. That’s overstating the issue of visa overstays. A [fact check](https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/aug/24/kevin-mccarthy/mostly-true-visa-overstays-account-half-all-people/) of the issue shows a lot of older data. Estimates tend to point to overstays accounting for a percentage of illegal aliens in the low 40s. It’s a big chunk. A statement like “nearly half” is supportable. A slight majority might be possible. “Vast majority” is a claim that’s pretty clearly false based on the best data available. There’s still a big point that a wall at the border isn’t that effective given even those numbers. There’s also the real prospect that those wishing to enter adjust behavior and affect the numbers. When we tweaked asylum processing in 2009 asylum claims went way up. With the overloaded immigration courts handling the claims it’s now a good way to enter for 2-3 years legally while waiting for a hearing.\* We can reasonably expect people to adjust their behaviors if we build more wall. Maybe that’s even more asylum claims or finding areas that are still open. I was joking with my sister over Christmas about visits to the San Diego Zoo going way up if we had a wall stretching along the entire border. People don’t walk all the way from Central America to the US border if they are easily dissuaded. “Shit. Wall. Guess I need to walk home now.” Overstating the case against the wall with claims that are clearly false doesn’t help the argument. - The darkly humorous part of the partial shutdown is that the immigration courts are not essential employees. The backlog is growing as the shutdown continues. Cases that aren’t happening because of the shutdown are being rescheduled…at the end of the very long and growing waiting line. Trump is effectively giving extensions to remain in the US to a chunk of asylum claimants every day. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/88 "2019-01-08T01:38:19Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > But when you look at the districts along the Mexican border, they all look blue, except for the expansive one that covers half of southern NM. NM-2 went Democratic this year. It can happen, but it needs strong turnout in Las Cruces (and it’s even better if NMSU students register there instead of voting absentee somewhere else), and enough people in other areas like Alamogordo and Clovis and Hobbs to go against the general Republican lean in those cities. Little Texas is hard to overcome most years. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/89 "2019-01-08T04:02:35Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Also, as of today, the striking government employees can just say “Hey, its what the POTUS said he f\*cking wanted” > > > [@](#): > > > > Along with saying the word “fuck” at least three times throughout the meeting, the president bizarrely stated that he did not want to call the partial government shutdown a “shutdown,” according to the source. Instead, he referred to it as a “strike.” (Many of the federal employees affected by the weeks-long shutdown have been working without pay. That is essentially the opposite of a strike.) > > ttps://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-referred-to-shutdown-as-strike-in-profanity-laced-meeting-with-democratic-leaders?utm\_source=fark&utm\_medium=website&utm\_content=link&ICID=ref\_fark > [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > In 1981, Reagan fired 11,300 air traffic controllers who went on strike. And that’s how the America-hating fuckstick thinks he’s going to get out of paying those workers who have to report to their jobs: he’s calling it a strike so he can fire them when the shutdown is over. I know, how stupid would anyone have to be to think this would work? Well, we haven’t yet plumbed the depths of this asshole’s stupidity, so I couldn’t say. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/90 "2019-01-08T04:40:03Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > That’s overstating the issue of visa overstays. A [fact check](https://www.politifact.com/california/statements/2018/aug/24/kevin-mccarthy/mostly-true-visa-overstays-account-half-all-people/) of the issue shows a lot of older data. Estimates tend to point to overstays accounting for a percentage of illegal aliens in the low 40s. It’s a big chunk. A statement like “nearly half” is supportable. A slight majority might be possible. “Vast majority” is a claim that’s pretty clearly false based on the best data available. In another [thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21411858&postcount=128), I posted some 2016 DSHS reports that show illegal entries of 170,000 and 739,000 visa overstays. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/91 "2019-01-08T19:22:03Z")
The constitution clearly provides that policy is made by congress and the president should carry it out. Nobody seems to have pointed this out, although Alesan certainly hinted at it. Proposing such a wall is entirely congress’s prerogative and it is about time the turtle came out of his shell and admitted it. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/92 "2019-01-08T19:45:01Z")
> [@nelliebly](#): > > What other compromises might there be? Build a very _short_ wall? I suggest building a wall 60 ft. long, 3 ft. deep and 3000 miles high. That would be some tourist attraction and would put the name Trump forever in the books. ---
**Author:** ![Kearsen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kearsen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kearsen)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/93 "2019-01-08T19:51:28Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Actually looking for a factual answer, but figure it will get GDey anyway… > > Given Trump has said he’s happy to shut down the government indefinitely. Is it remotely possible that some of the “essential government employees” that are currently working for free could decide, en masse, that they aren’t doing so anymore (I am not sure strike is the right word, as they deciding to not to work for free is hardly a strike IMO). > > Is this something thats been discussed during this, or other shutdowns? Is there a union that represents a large enough portion of them to make a difference? (TSA agents have apparently been [calling in sick during](https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/politics/shutdown-tsa-screening/index.html)the shutdown). A mass walk out by them alone would shutdown the airline network, and definitely force an end to the shutdown IMO. Maybe they should do away with the TSA all together, flying might be a bit more enjoyable … ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2019, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/94 "2019-01-08T19:58:18Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Do you pay an employee for their work, or for being your employee? In Europa at least you pay an employee for being your employee (thus the right to get paid during the yearly holidays) and a free-lancer or an external contractor for his work, work which will have to be measured according to the contract signed either by the hour or by results achieved plus expenses incurred. Is it not like that in the USA? ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2019, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251/95 "2019-01-10T00:07:34Z")
In depth discussion of this here (I’m clearly not the only person to have this thought): > [@](#): > > Neither Young nor any of his partners in union leadership, however, will urge their members to do the one thing that would seem most natural for employees facing the same treatment in the private sector: If they don’t pay you, stay home. > > “We can’t call or advocate for a strike,” Young said. > > Since the enactment of the Taft-Hartley Act in 1947, federal employees have been legally prohibited from striking. That law was intended to prevent public-sector workers from leveraging a work stoppage that could cripple the U.S. government or major industries in negotiations for better pay, working conditions, and benefits. But it likely did not envision a scenario where the government would require its employees to work without paying them, as is the case now. > . > . > > If they don’t show up, “they’d be considered absent without leave,” said Jacque Simon, the policy director for the American Federation of Government Employees, by far the largest union representing federal employees. “When they’re told to come to work, they are required to come to work.” An awol designation could lead to disciplinary action, including termination. For longtime government employees, that could put in jeopardy a federal pension they’ve spent a career accruing, union leaders said. > **[Why Federal Workers Still Have to Show Up Even If They’re Not Being Paid](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/01/shutdown-federal-workers-cant-strike/579793/)** > > The law prohibits public employees from striking, forcing them into what one union leader called “involuntary servitude” during the government shutdown. Still seems to me, seeing as they are clearly the wronged party here, and have the power to cause enough disruption to absolutely force someone to cave. They should be discussing some kind of joint action, whatever the law says. Even the threat of a mass resignation, mass sick-out, or mass strike (whatever the Taft-Hartley Act says. Would be enough. If it was me I’d be pressing my union rep to organize that (its not of course, and I understand why someone wouldn’t do that) Does the Taft-Hartley Act say anything about industrial action that falls short of an outright strike? Like an organised sick out? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-of-a-essential-government-employee-strike/827251.md?page=4)