# Any chance they can get the grounded Italian ship back upright? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 14, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541 "2012-01-14T23:02:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/41 "2012-01-16T03:43:05Z")
Well, the situation is a little different when Italian men are calling the shots. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/42 "2012-01-16T03:46:37Z")
> [@Lucretia](#): > > If I understood my old-salt WWII and life-long sailor grandfather correctly, sailors consider it to be very, very bad luck to re-christen a ship. The only acceptable circumstance is if it has been sunk and then raised and put back into service. This may be a naval tradition but commercial vessels change name like you change clothes. It is for example normal to change the name every time the vessel changes ownership (which might well happen every couple of years). > [@aceplace57](#): > > Wouldn’t speed be a factor for such a huge hole? The reports sounds like that rock opened the hull like a can opener. > > It’s not that unusual for ships to run aground without this kind of damage. Speed is a factor but bottom type is most of it. Rocks will do damage at 0.5kts, mud often does no damage at all. > [@Rick](#): > > In my not expert opinion refloating is going to be a bitch. > Patching the hole in the bottom is straight forward and probably not that difficult. > Pumping the water out however… > Unlike a navy ship or a freighter this ship has about 1 gazillion windows which are now under water and probably broken. You have to get the water out faster than it can flow back in. Good luck with that. They would patch the main hull and pump out the below water compartments on the low side, and ballast those on the high side. This would probably be combined with righting force applied by large floating cranes, bouyancy bags etc. These things are done very slowly, and as the vessel rolled back upright the water in cabins etc would flow out the same way it came in, with help from pumps in strategic places. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/43 "2012-01-16T04:18:15Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Wow…that thing is HUGE! And it’s only about 26th on the list of [largest](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_world%27s_largest_cruise_ships)cruise ships (depending on how you measure). Royal Caribbean has some truly ginormous ships! ---
**Author:** ![robinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/848f3c/32.png) [@robinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robinson)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/44 "2012-01-16T07:12:13Z")
According to another bbc article, the guy’s bio does not fill one with confidence - never went to merchant marine school? Having said that, I would be surprised if he were even on the bridge. It happened during dinner hour and he was probably dining with guests. The operations department head would have laid on the course and posted the crew schedule. Same article says the “First Officer” was also detained. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/45 "2012-01-16T08:05:08Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > There’s a link on the BBC site to a video interview of the Captain where he says he was around 300 meters offshore, and believed the rocks extended out just 150 meters. It’s absolutely astonishing that he intended to pass within 150m of any rock, and obviously at considerable speed (as evidenced by a huge gash visible along the port side). > > This can’t be put down to simple “navigation error”, as the Captain was clearly aware of where he was, and at least close to where he intended to be. This sounds like the nautical equivalent of an airplane pilot flying underneath a bridge. Which would be why he’s under arrest. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/46 "2012-01-16T08:16:20Z")
> [@Old\_Eel](#): > > I have been on over 15 cruises on maybe 8 lines and never, ever, ever has this been the case. Seriously? I’ve been on, let me think, maybe 4 on Holland America and 1 on Carnival and always they make the women and children stand in front and explain that it’s gonna be the Birkenhead drill all the way. My elderly father with 4 herniated discs in his back has to stand in the back row while Mom and I, good swimmers both, stand up front. ---
**Author:** ![glaeken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@glaeken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glaeken)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/47 "2012-01-16T10:48:23Z")
I heard the owners of the ship announced it would probably be out of service for the rest of the year so it seems like its a given its going to raised and put back into service. This was on Sky news in the UK this morning. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/48 "2012-01-16T11:06:27Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > It’s absolutely astonishing that he intended to pass within 150m of any rock, and obviously at considerable speed (as evidenced by a huge gash visible along the port side). Reminds me of my friend who, as a teenager, managed to lose control of his vehicle and total five teachers’ cars in the school parking lot. When I asked him how he managed to do it, he whined “But I was only doing 40!” ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/49 "2012-01-16T11:44:33Z")
[Latest picture (pic 10 in this gallery right now) of the hole](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16560050) with a massive boulder embedded in it. ---
**Author:** ![Walther\_Ego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8dc957/32.png) [@Walther\_Ego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walther_Ego)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/50 "2012-01-16T14:40:25Z")
A lot of naval architects have chosen the career because of appreciation of the traditional art of seafare and shipbuilding. Many have a sailboat and love either the America’s cup or Cutty Sark type of vessels. So the ugly boxes that they design are in no way their ideal. A wide ship has enormous stability. The high superstructure is not only thin steel with no heavy outfitting, but also a means of raising the centre of gravity so that the ship will right itself less violently, making it possible to steer it without puking or hitting your head in a storm. Really, sufficient safe stability is needed, but big stability is the reason why people get sea-sick. Cargo handling is another factor that makes ships ugly. Some small holes at the centre and hoards of men dropping stuff inside? Graceful. Cardeck doors? Not so much. And a container ship is just a pile of containers encased in steel. But all in all, what other machine spends so much time outside people’s eyes? So there’s actually a logic to make a ship ugly, rather than any other thing. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/51 "2012-01-16T14:54:18Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > Which would be why he’s under arrest. Part of the reason for this is apparently that he abandoned the ship long before the evacuation was complete. How he imagined that would be unnoticed or uncriticized is certainly a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/52 "2012-01-16T14:57:54Z")
> [@robinson](#): > > Having said that, I would be surprised if he were even on the bridge. Ship is passing within a few hundred meters of an island and the Captain isn’t on the bridge? The mind boggles. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/53 "2012-01-16T15:08:20Z")
Anyone know about how much the ship cost to build? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/54 "2012-01-16T15:14:57Z")
Various news stories suggest $400 - $450 million. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/55 "2012-01-16T15:16:34Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > Anyone know about how much the ship cost to build? According to the Beeb, £300,000,000 which is about $450,000,000. ETA: they’ll probably take it out of Captain Schettino’s paycheck. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/56 "2012-01-16T15:31:28Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > [Latest picture (pic 10 in this gallery right now) of the hole](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16560050) with a massive boulder embedded in it. That’s going to take a lot of Bondo. It’s interesting that it seems to have listed away from the tear in the hull rather than toward it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/57 "2012-01-16T15:59:27Z")
I read in one account that they initially listed towards the gash on the port side. Then as they manuevered the ship towards land & the harbor, the water sloshed over to starboard. Then it sloshed a little too far over to starboard & they capsized. Folks seem to be missing one point. Either that or I’m confused. The spot where it hit the rocks is some distance (at least a couple miles) from where it ended up capsizing. The ship ended up right next to the shore because that’s what they were trying to do; get into shallow protected water after the collision but before it sank completely. What none of the pix or maps I’ve seen really show us is the entire path of the ship from before the bottom strike all the way to its present position. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/58 "2012-01-16T16:12:31Z")
[QUOTE=LSLGuy] Folks seem to be missing one point. Either that or I’m confused. The spot where it hit the rocks is some distance (at least a couple miles) from where it ended up capsizing. The ship ended up right next to the shore because that’s what they were trying to do; get into shallow protected water after the collision but before it sank completely. [/QUOTE] There have been conflicting reports on what the Captain has said. The BBC reports that the company is now saying he came in close to show the ship off to person or persons on shore. Could be damage limitation propaganda, mind you. Also translations of his statement have him saying he was “300 metres off shore”. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/59 "2012-01-16T16:23:19Z")
[QUOTE=aceplace57] That link says the ship was built in 2006. Not quite six years old. It should be worth fixing. [/QUOTE] Almost definitely. Contemporary cruise ships tend to get a complete refit (aka revitalization) every 12-15 years, so this one’s just a baby. Based on how fast a typical refit is done, having this ship repaired and back in service by the end of the year is a conservative estimate. A lengthy refit may take two months - usually they’re more like 3 to 5 weeks. Righting the ship will be the hardest part. Then, once it’s at drydock, the damaged hull portions will be cut out and replaced, the damaged staterooms swapped out, and she could possibly be back in service by mid-year, depending on the shipyard’s schedule. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/60 "2012-01-16T18:33:45Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Seriously? I’ve been on, let me think, maybe 4 on Holland America and 1 on Carnival and always they make the women and children stand in front and explain that it’s gonna be the Birkenhead drill all the way. My elderly father with 4 herniated discs in his back has to stand in the back row while Mom and I, good swimmers both, stand up front. I have to agree with Old Eel. I’ve never been on a cruise where they put the women up front – short people yes (that would be male me), but not by gender. I’ve been on Disney, Royal Caribbean, and Holland America. I also don’t know what a Birkenhead drill is, so what do I know? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541.md?page=4)