# Any chance they can get the grounded Italian ship back upright? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 14, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541 "2012-01-14T23:02:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/61 "2012-01-16T18:54:47Z")
Here is a [timeline](http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/15/timeline-the-costa-concordias-last-minutes/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NPWorld+(National+Post+-+World)). The captain abandoned the ship while there were at least 300 people still on board. Was trying to move the ship closer to the island a good move? I’m surprised that an evacuation wasn’t started almost immediately rather than 40 minutes after the collision; maybe he didn’t know how big the hole in the hull was. Any captains that can provide an analysis? ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/62 "2012-01-16T19:06:31Z")
> [@gotpasswords](#): > > Almost definitely. Contemporary cruise ships tend to get a complete refit (aka revitalization) every 12-15 years, so this one’s just a baby. Based on how fast a typical refit is done, having this ship repaired and back in service by the end of the year is a conservative estimate. A lengthy refit may take two months - usually they’re more like 3 to 5 weeks. > > Righting the ship will be the hardest part. Then, once it’s at drydock, the damaged hull portions will be cut out and replaced, the damaged staterooms swapped out, and she could possibly be back in service by mid-year, depending on the shipyard’s schedule. I’d agree the hotel can be repaired / refitted / replaced pretty easily & quickly. But … I question that all the ships engineering stuff can be repaired / replaced so quickly. Yes, all equipment on a ship is designed with \*some \*waterproofing in mind. But the fact the engine room & electrical plant & HVAC plant & sewage system and refrigeration systems and … will all have been submerged in sea water for a couple months has to cause damage to those things. All of which will need to be evaluated and, if necesary, replaced before they get serious replacing the hotel on top. As an example, I would not be much surprised to discover the ship needs almost a complete electrical system replacement. Which probably includes all the wiring for telephone & data, plus maybe CATV to each cabin. ---
**Author:** ![ExTank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/35a633/32.png) [@ExTank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExTank)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/63 "2012-01-16T19:26:17Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I also don’t know what a Birkenhead drill is, so what do I know? [H.M.S. Birkenhead.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Birkenhead_(1845)) ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/64 "2012-01-16T19:50:24Z")
From La Repubblica: [a couple dozen photographs of Costa ships very close to shores](http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/01/16/foto/nave_vicino_alla_costa_le_foto_dei_lettori_2-28227710/1/?ref=FRAG-4). Many of these look legit, like the Fortuna that I saw being pulled by a tug, but some could be questionable. Bonus: [fuckin’ huge ships in the Venice lagoon](http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/01/15/foto/venezia_le_grandi_navi_in_laguna-28190392/1/). ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/65 "2012-01-16T23:05:45Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I have to agree with Old Eel. I’ve never been on a cruise where they put the women up front – short people yes (that would be male me), but not by gender. I’ve been on Disney, Royal Caribbean, and Holland America. > > I also don’t know what a Birkenhead drill is, so what do I know? Most of the muster drills I’ve attended on cruise ships never did anything that involved separating the women from the men--------or anything that requires standing, for that matter. Mostly, at the appointed time the passengers grabbed their life jackets and showed up at their “Muster Station”, which was whatever Promenade Deck entertainment venue was closest to your cabin, then sat in that theatre or nightclub or whatever and listened to lame jokes mingled in with a review of safety procedures and ship rules – you are not allowed in any non-passenger areas unless on an official tour EVEN if a crew member invites you —, if you have to abandon ship step off, don’t JUMP, …etc…then everyone stood up at the end and put on their life jackets just to prove they knew how to and … then everyone that figured it out took off the life jackets and went to the bar while the crew helped out the people that weren’t good with life jackets. I’ve never seen them separate the sexes ( and in the theatre it would be easy, seat the men in the back and send the women and children down front…and we never did any sort of drill that would cause us to go outside or even stand up. However they are RELIGIOUS about holding the drills …every ship I’ve been on held them prior to sailing except one, there were boarding delays on that one so the drill happened just after we left port. Everyone I’ve discussed the accident with has trouble believing they didn’t hold the drill…a friend that has worked in the cruise business for 20 years had never heard of any ship not doing that. Well, I’m leaving on a cruise on Wednesday, a new cruise line for me, and I’m interested in seeing if they do things differently. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/66 "2012-01-16T23:13:49Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Part of the reason for this is apparently that he abandoned the ship long before the evacuation was complete. How he imagined that would be unnoticed or uncriticized is certainly a mystery. I saw the Dateline documentary on this ship wreck last year > **[MTS Oceanos](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTS_Oceanos)** > > .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct,.mw-parser-output .geo-inline-hidden{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}32°07′15″S 29°07′13″E / 32.12083°S 29.12028°E / -32.12083; 29.12028 (Oceanos wreck) > > MTS Oceanos was a French-built and Greek-owned cruise ship that sank in 1991 when it suffered uncontrolled flooding.... The captain took off early during that one, too … it’s probably a good thing they don’t give airline pilots parachutes ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/67 "2012-01-16T23:20:55Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > Here is a [timeline](http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/15/timeline-the-costa-concordias-last-minutes/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NPWorld+(National+Post+-+World)). The captain abandoned the ship while there were at least 300 people still on board. Was trying to move the ship closer to the island a good move? I’m surprised that an evacuation wasn’t started almost immediately rather than 40 minutes after the collision; maybe he didn’t know how big the hole in the hull was. Any captains that can provide an analysis? I’ve been involved in the aftermath and detailed investigation of a lot of marine incidents. There are no sensors indicating the nature and extent of damage on commercial vessels. It can be very hard to work out what is going on below the waterline. 40 minutes doesn’t surprise me at all. Evacuation is in itself a dangerous operation (people die in lifeboat drills every year). It’s a last resort. Attempting to counter ballast to keep the vessel upright, and or beaching the vessel are safer options if possible. Another thing I have learned is that about perhaps half of all news reports in the immediate aftermath will be bullshit. Doubly so if they conform to certain stereotypes (like “Captain drunk” or “Captain abanded ship leaving passengers to their fate” or “Captain sleeping at inappropriate time”). And even to the extent they have a grain of truth, they are usually not even close to the whole story. > [@gotpasswords](#): > > Almost definitely. Contemporary cruise ships tend to get a complete refit (aka revitalization) every 12-15 years, so this one’s just a baby. Based on how fast a typical refit is done, having this ship repaired and back in service by the end of the year is a conservative estimate. A lengthy refit may take two months - usually they’re more like 3 to 5 weeks. Typical refits are highly planned and routine. I don’t think what it would take to entirely refurbish this vessel after it has been mostly filled with salt water bears any resemblance at all to a routine refit. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/68 "2012-01-16T23:35:46Z")
> [@ExTank](#): > > [H.M.S. Birkenhead.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Birkenhead_(1845)) Those guys had balls. I’d have found a wig. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2012, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/69 "2012-01-16T23:44:40Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > Was trying to move the ship closer to the island a good move? I’m surprised that an evacuation wasn’t started almost immediately rather than 40 minutes after the collision; maybe he didn’t know how big the hole in the hull was. The ship has to be stopped dead in the water to lower lifeboats & do an evacuation (and people are likely to be injured or die during evacuation). The other choice was to return to the port, which was less than an hour away. If they can get into port, everybody can get off the ship normally, with no injuries or deaths, and the ship itself can probably be repaired. The captain here took that second choice, to make for port. But the damage to the ship was greater than they thought, so they were unable to make it. But it was a reasonable choice, probably even the safest one at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/70 "2012-01-17T00:14:02Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > Bonus: [fuckin’ huge ships in the Venice lagoon](http://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2012/01/15/foto/venezia_le_grandi_navi_in_laguna-28190392/1/). I’ve actually seen that ship, or one from the same line, in the Venice Lagoon. In fact, there was another extremely large cruise ship in there at the same time. That’s another disaster waiting to happen, what with the millions of other smaller (relatively) boats zooming around. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/71 "2012-01-17T00:26:47Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > The ship has to be stopped dead in the water to lower lifeboats & do an evacuation (and people are likely to be injured or die during evacuation). The other choice was to return to the port, which was less than an hour away. If they can get into port, everybody can get off the ship normally, with no injuries or deaths, and the ship itself can probably be repaired. > > The captain here took that second choice, to make for port. But the damage to the ship was greater than they thought, so they were unable to make it. But it was a reasonable choice, probably even the safest one at the time. Is there a pier where they could they have docked at the island, or were they trying to make it back to where they embarked? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/72 "2012-01-17T00:34:53Z")
I’ve seen this quote in several news stories. No one has actually explained what the emergency maneuver was. is it some standard thing every captain is trained to do? > [@](#): > > But, he said, Schettino is “nonetheless comforted by the fact that he maintained during those moments the necessary lucidity to put in place a difficult emergency maneuver … bringing the ship to shallow waters.” That move, Leporatti said, saved the lives of many passengers and crew members. > **[Italian cruise ship captain to be questioned; 29 remain missing | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2012/01/16/world/europe/italy-cruise-main/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)** > > The captain of the cruise ship that wrecked off Italy’s western coast will be questioned by authorities Tuesday at a hearing, his attorney said. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/73 "2012-01-17T03:44:00Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I’ve seen this quote in several news stories. No one has actually explained what the emergency maneuver was. is it some standard thing every captain is trained to do? The most detailed explanation I’ve read is that it somehow involved the anchors. Maybe the nautical equivalent of a handbrake turn? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/74 "2012-01-17T03:58:20Z")
[Here’s a graphic](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16584591) citing Lloyd’s, showing the expected course and the course taken by the Costa Concordia. That article also mentions that one of the crew members is from Giglio and speculates that the captain was sweeping by the island as a favor to the crew member. BTW it is highly likely that the charts to which he refers are electronic ones per a GPS system. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/75 "2012-01-17T04:35:24Z")
Here’s an [animated tracking display](http://www.cruise-addicts.com/forums/videos/5385/costa-concordia-accident-ais-replay-cruise-ship-videos.html) (useful but not amazing detail - full-screen mode is necessary to see much). It shows the ship was doing around 15 knots prior to the grounding. It seems to indicate a 180-degree maneuver after the grounding that put the ship in shallow water very close to shore (which plausibly did significantly reduce the loss of life). ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/76 "2012-01-17T05:20:07Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > Here is a [timeline](http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/01/15/timeline-the-costa-concordias-last-minutes/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+NPWorld+(National+Post+-+World)). The captain abandoned the ship while there were at least 300 people still on board. Was trying to move the ship closer to the island a good move? I’m surprised that an evacuation wasn’t started almost immediately rather than 40 minutes after the collision; maybe he didn’t know how big the hole in the hull was. Any captains that can provide an analysis? A captian probably would not know he probably could not even read a blue print. The Chief would the one to give the necessary information about how much water was being taken on. When the Chief told the captian which compartments were flooding and hhow many pounds of water were coming into the compartments, then the captian may try and counter flood. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/77 "2012-01-17T05:22:21Z")
> [@sh1bu1](#): > > Is there a pier where they could they have docked at the island, or were they trying to make it back to where they embarked? Here is a [photo that shows the situation](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16582060) (about the 10th picture in) – rescue divers walking along the pier in the harbor, with boats in the harbor, and in the background the foundered ship. They came incredibly close to actually getting into that port. Though I’m not sure it could actually have docked – I don’t see that this port has docks big enough for this vessel. But being right inside the port certainly would have made it easy to have rescued the passengers. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/78 "2012-01-17T05:27:33Z")
Docking a boat that’s full of water and listing won’t work. The weight would just rip the mooring lines loose. It may be good that the ship didn’t get into the port. It could have blocked it for months. All the shipping that depended on that port would be screwed. The captain did the right thing by getting it into shallow water. That probably did save a lot of lives. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/79 "2012-01-17T06:21:45Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > They came incredibly close to actually getting into that port. Though I’m not sure it could actually have docked – I don’t see that this port has docks big enough for this vessel. But being right inside the port certainly would have made it easy to have rescued the passengers. The master would have been aiming to get it into shallow water so that it would not sink. He wouldn’t have been hoping to get it neatly berthed alongside. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/80 "2012-01-17T17:12:12Z")
Schettino [is condemned by his own words](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16599655), for his actions afterwards anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541.md?page=5)