# Any chance they can get the grounded Italian ship back upright? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 14, 2012, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541 "2012-01-14T23:02:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/141 "2012-01-21T05:03:01Z")
Well, we know you’re considering it, so that’s at least one! ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2012, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/142 "2012-01-21T05:41:32Z")
They mentioned anchoring in this article. They are supposed to start pumping the oil off the ship in the next day or so. > **[Rescuers resume partial search on doomed Italian cruise ship | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2012/01/20/world/europe/italy-cruise-main/index.html)** > > Rescue workers began a search of the above-water areas of the Costa Concordia cruise ship, the Italian coast guard said Friday. > [@Xema](#): > > There seem now to be a number of reports that the ship’s current position is precarious and it could slide into deeper water, which would enormously complicate things like searching for bodies, removing the fuel and salvaging the ship. > > It would seem to make sense to try to secure the ship against this - say, by hauling an anchor ashore and perhaps running another serious cable from aft (around a propeller shaft?) to shore. > > Any evidence this sort of thing is being done, or considered? ---
**Author:** ![Deanism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bc8723/32.png) [@Deanism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deanism)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/143 "2012-01-22T12:59:57Z")
All I know is - if Mark Wahlberg had been on that ship it wouldn’t still be on it’s side. There would have been a lot of blood and then there’d be Mark saying “OK everybody, I’ve pushed the ship back upright with my incredible strength. Now I’m going to sail it to Switzerland and buy everyone some chocolates”. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/144 "2012-01-22T14:51:32Z")
> [@Deanism](#): > > Now I’m going to sail it to Switzerland and buy everyone some chocolates". Make that “push it to Switzerland”. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/145 "2012-01-22T14:55:58Z")
> [@Deanism](#): > > All I know is - if Mark Wahlberg had been on that ship it wouldn’t still be on it’s side. There would have been a lot of blood and then there’d be Mark saying “OK everybody, I’ve pushed the ship back upright with my incredible strength. Now I’m going to sail it to Switzerland and buy everyone some chocolates”. 20 years ago that would have been an Ahnold movie. Today, they’d make it with him, Stallone, Jason Statham, and maybe Carl Weathers, as older semi-retired guys who team up to amass the super-hero powers they still have left. Besides, it’s more fitting that a bunch of retired musclemen are the ones to save a cruise ship. ---
**Author:** ![Deanism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bc8723/32.png) [@Deanism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deanism)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2012, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/146 "2012-01-23T12:23:30Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Make that “push it to Switzerland”. 🙂 Mark is so clever he can sail a ship across land and over mountains! ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2012, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/147 "2012-01-24T10:04:16Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Carnival faces the full $650 mil loss if it can’t be salvaged. Apparently, while they have liability and some damage insurance, it isn’t insured against total loss. > > Carnival Cruise stock is down 15% since the crash. Don’t know what that totals up to. > > [This article claims](http://www.euronews.net/2012/01/18/costa-concordia-to-deal-financial-blow-to-cruise-industry/) that a sampling of travel agents has indicated that about 3% of cruises booked this season have already been canceled since the accident. That’s a pretty shaky number, no details as to how many agents were questioned or much of anything else. They claim 27 billion euros annually are spent on cruises. > > [Here’s another story](http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/travel/risk-spread-between-several-insurance-firms-too-early-to-say-if-passengers-are-avoiding-trips/2012/01/17/gIQAG5JR6P_story.html) with more detail about the insurance coverage. Claims estimates are running between 500 million to 1 billion dollars. Because of deductibles, the company is on the hook for at least 40 million. > > This last link contradicts the first. According to it, after a $30 million deductible paid by Carnival, the cost for the loss of the ship, called “hull insurance”, will be picked up by a consortium of insurers. From its name, I have to wonder if this insurance covers everything including the accommodations and amenities, or just the keel and engines and maybe the general physical plant that powers it all. > > As far as liability, Carnival has a $70 million dollars in policies, with a $10 million deductible. That may go pretty fast . With 4,200 passengers and crew, that works out to less than $15,000 each. Carnival have hull insurance which will, subject to deductible, cover the physical loss of the ship. “Hull” in this context just refers to the ship. It is not a term of limitation. It covers the whole thing. The vessel has liability insurance with protection and indemnity mutuals (known as “P&I Clubs” in the industry). Interestingly, it seems to have a split entry between two clubs which is unusual, no doubt because of the size of the risk. This will, again subject to deductibles, cover all liabilities. The limits on P&I cover are so high that they are effectively limitless. I don’t know where you get your $70m figure from. I couldn’t see it in your cites. In most jurisdictions there are statutory limitations on liability for marine incidents (under one of various international conventions). I don’t know what if any limitation would be available to the owners in Italy. > [@jjimm](#): > > And now the latest innuendo: there was a 25-year-old Moldovan [cutie](http://www.adevarul.ro/moldova/social/Domnica-Cemortan-echipajul-Costa-Concordia_5_628787139.html#), a Costa employee, who was not on the passenger list, who was allegedly seen dining with Schettino in the evening and was allegedly on the bridge at the time the accident happened. She has also been quoted in the press [defending Schettino](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9016772/Italy-cruise-disaster-captain-accused-of-abandoning-ship-before-passengers.html). There was an interesting opinion piece by an Australian/Italian journalist insider on the whole Schettino thing today in _The Australian_ which is [here.](http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/world/ships-captain-a-victim-of-flawed-italian-media/story-e6frg6ux-1226251669369) The Australian is behind a paywall but the weird thing is that if you [google the story](http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&sa=X&ei=k30eT8m8OOmViQe3l-3XDQ&ved=0CBkQBSgA&q=%22james+panichi%22+schettino&spell=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.,cf.osb&fp=aef2ba43eb0f69a4&biw=1680&bih=889)then follow the google link you seem to be able to see the whole thing. Anyway, if that link isn’t working then I’ll summarise later. The very short version is that this journo has grave misgivings about the reporting of this story and the thorough demonisation and character assassination of Schettino. He has some choice words about Italian journalism from which the key slanderous stories have emanated. And what made me post this in particular was his statement that the next stage will be to [del]make up[/del] report on a sex scandal. It seems from your post that this stage is now underway. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/148 "2012-01-26T19:48:07Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > 20 years ago that would have been an Ahnold movie. Today, they’d make it with him, Stallone, Jason Statham, and maybe Carl Weathers, as older semi-retired guys who team up to amass the super-hero powers they still have left… “I’m gettin’ too old for this shit!” ---
**Author:** ![blood63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@blood63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blood63)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/149 "2012-01-26T19:57:33Z")
> [@RaftPeople](#): > > That one doesn’t because it’s looks wider than it is tall (based on standard container dimensions, it appears to be about 120’ wide by 80’ tall from water line to top of containers) > > But the cruise ship looks taller than it looks wide. > Note: I’m not a nautical engineer and I trust the engineers, just commenting that the cruise ship “looks” top heavy to me also. I watched a documentary on those super cargo carriers. What you don’t see is the incredible internal holding ability of the ships. There may be 10 layers of containers inside that thing. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/150 "2012-01-26T21:36:12Z")
My guess is it’ll sit there until it’s broken up by a series of storms - look at what happened ot the [MV Rena](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Rena) here in NZ recently. The Rena (a containership considerably smaller than the Concordia) ran aground on a reef with a major list but still relatively upright. After three months she split in two and the stern has sunk. Admittedly the Concordia looks to be resting on the bottom, and may be in more sheltered waters. But surely being on its side can’t be good for the structure (already compromised by the big gash). ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/151 "2012-01-27T00:05:18Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > My guess is it’ll sit there until it’s broken up by a series of storms - look at what happened ot the [MV Rena](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Rena) here in NZ recently. The Rena (a containership considerably smaller than the Concordia) ran aground on a reef with a major list but still relatively upright. After three months she split in two and the stern has sunk. Admittedly the Concordia looks to be resting on the bottom, and may be in more sheltered waters. But surely being on its side can’t be good for the structure (already compromised by the big gash). The Rena was in a very precarious and stressed situation: half on and half off a reef, in some extremely exposed waters. The only surprising thing is that it took so long to break up. When it first cracked in half I thought it would be gone in a matter of hours but it hung on for a few weeks. The Costa Concordia is quite different. It’s in relatively sheltered waters and it seems to be aground its whole length. I think it will stay there till removed. It will be righted and floated away or cut up and taken away. I don’t think the Italian govt will let it remain as a wreck. I don’t have any experience with Italian standards for this sort of thing, but that is an educated guess. > [@blood63](#): > > I watched a documentary on those super cargo carriers. What you don’t see is the incredible internal holding ability of the ships. There may be 10 layers of containers inside that thing. But that isn’t what gives it stability. The containers are quite low density. The stability is from water ballast, if required, and from the main engine and other heavy parts being set low. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/152 "2012-01-27T00:28:58Z")
I’ll bow to you’re superior expertise. Another factor I hadn’t considered is the relative ages of the vessels, the Rena was more than 20 years old versus the Concordia’s 6. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/153 "2012-01-27T16:22:02Z")
The cruise line is offering surviving passengers $14K each for their troubles. Would you take it?: [http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/27/world/europe/italy-cruise-ship/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/27/world/europe/italy-cruise-ship/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/154 "2012-01-27T16:49:26Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > The cruise line is offering surviving passengers $14K each for their troubles. Would you take it?: [http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/27/world/europe/italy-cruise-ship/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/27/world/europe/italy-cruise-ship/index.html) Yes, I would take it,assuming I wasn’t injured, and they also refunded the cost of the cruise and my incidental expenses like airfare and a hotel stay that I would probably have spent in order to get to the embarkation point. Oh, BTW, that is almost certainly tax free, as compensation for some loss or damages. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/155 "2012-01-30T02:53:43Z")
The current estimate is that [it will take 10 months](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/9047774/Costa-Concordia-will-take-10-months-to-be-removed.html) to complete the salvage operation. It appears to be an open question whether the ship can be re-floated, or must be cut up. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/156 "2012-05-18T19:07:43Z")
It might take a year and cost $300 million, but they’re gonna try it: [http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/18/world/europe/italy-cruise-ship/index.html?hpt=hp\_t3](http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/18/world/europe/italy-cruise-ship/index.html?hpt=hp_t3) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/157 "2012-05-18T19:45:09Z")
Let’s hope the captain stays aground. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2012, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/158 "2012-07-08T22:56:16Z")
Lessons learned from the wreck: [http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/04/world/europe/costa-concordia/index.html?hpt=hp\_c1](http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/04/world/europe/costa-concordia/index.html?hpt=hp_c1) ---
**Author:** ![gunnergoz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e95f7d/32.png) [@gunnergoz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gunnergoz)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/159 "2012-07-09T01:42:28Z")
What I’ve understood from various maritime related sites is that the ship is already considered a total loss. It has been half-submerged for so long that it is felt that rebuilding it would not be cost-effective, even though it is relatively new. @Washoe: > [@](#): > > Well, the situation is a little different when Italian men are calling the shots. I’d venture to say that the ship’s captain is not representative of Italian men. His behavior has been soundly criticized by Italian officials and the Italian general public already and there are indications that this particular captain had some real issues with judgment calls already. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541/160 "2012-07-09T02:37:15Z")
> [@gunnergoz](#): > > What I’ve understood from various maritime related sites is that the ship is already considered a total loss. It has been half-submerged for so long that it is felt that rebuilding it would not be cost-effective, even though it is relatively new. How is that different from refloating ships sunk at Pearl Harbor? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-chance-they-can-get-the-grounded-italian-ship-back-upright/609541.md?page=9)