# any color blind pilots out there? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [June 6, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330 "2012-06-06T23:30:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/1 "2012-06-06T23:30:18Z")
I have a friend who is working on a private pilot’s license and is partially color blind. What is involved with getting a waiver? ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/2 "2012-06-07T00:59:46Z")
Have him talk to his doctor that does his med cert. Mine was a pilot, and dealt with this often. Like 8-10 percent of men, I’m red-green colorblind. Tanked my naval aviation and ATP plans early on. I had an FAA inspector drag me out to a runway and they flashed lights at me from the tower. Since I’m not a dog, I can actually see colors, and I passed my light test. I’ve had my license since 1980, so YMMV. I’ve got decent hours, but I’m not current. Haven’t flown in years. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/3 "2012-06-07T01:09:55Z")
> [@ducati](#): > > Have him talk to his doctor that does his med cert. Mine was a pilot, and dealt with this often. > > Like 8-10 percent of men, I’m red-green colorblind. Tanked my naval aviation and ATP plans early on. I had an FAA inspector drag me out to a runway and they flashed lights at me from the tower. Since I’m not a dog, I can actually see colors, and I passed my light test. > I’ve had my license since 1980, so YMMV. I’ve got decent hours, but I’m not current. Haven’t flown in years. > > Good luck! you must not be full red/green color blind if you can see the gun lights. I’m guessing you can differentiate between traffic lights but not the colored dot tests which even for me are tough and I don’t have any color blindness. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/4 "2012-06-07T01:50:06Z")
You need to distiguish between “aviation red” and “aviation green” which even red / green colorblind people can sometimes distinguish. Evene if you can’t, you can get a daytime only limitation (IIRC) Brian ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/5 "2012-06-07T02:02:04Z")
Hello - another colorblind pilot here. Yep, I went out to FSDO and they dragged me out to where I had a view of the tower and flashed the light gun at me. Note that key is NOT “do you see the colors” but _can you reliably distinguish the signals?_ In my case I don’t see red, white and green I see them as red, white, and blue but because I can _reliably_ distinguish the signals, even if I see the wrong colors, I got a SODA and full flying privileges. It is a good idea to consult someone more current than myself on the exact requirements and results these days - I think they’re no longer issuing SODA’s but some other sort of thing that basically says the same thing? Anyhow, a few important points: 1. Do your best to find out which particular test will be used and if at all possible get the student a dry run _BEFORE_ the official test with someone other than the FAA guys. You want to reduce the variables prior to testing. Better yet, if you find out one permitted test might be a problem then you might be able to ask for a different one _but you have to do it well in advance_ of the testing date. If you find out it’s the lightgun test not only expose the testee to an actual lightgun signal, but make sure he knows what the authentic signals are and what they mean just in case that figures into the test. 2. _Test at the level of license expected at the end of training_. If all he wants is to be a private pilot then that’s one level of test, but if he decides to upgrade his license later he’ll have to re-test at a higher level. The private pilot test, when I did it back in the late 1990’s, took place with me and an examiner standing on the ground within eyeshot of the tower guys using the lightgun. The 2nd and 3rd class versions take place in the air, or at least they did at the time, with (I’m told) a more authentic simulation of use of signals. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/6 "2012-06-07T02:23:21Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > You need to distiguish between “aviation red” and “aviation green” which even red / green colorblind people can sometimes distinguish. In case anyone is confused by that… let me add a few things. There are FOUR typical forms of red/green colorblindness. There is deuter_anomaly_, deuteranopia, prot_anomaly_, and protanopia. And yes, those terms ARE color and typeface coded. 😉 The prefix “deuter” means “problems with perception of green”. The prefix “prot” means “problems with perception of red”. The suffix _anomaly_ means “the perception is weak, but the color can be seen in many circumstances although not all”. The suffix “anopia” means “can’t see the color in question”. If I tell you I am deuteranomalous that tells you I can see green, but not as well as the average person. Grass is green, and (most) tree leaves are green, but “aviation green” is actually _blue_ to me… but a blue different from any other light signal used in aviation so I can reliably use light signals. As it is useless to argue with the US government I have agreed to call those light signals “green” to avoid confusion. So… _typically_ someone with deuteranomaly will see aviation green as blue. Someone with deuteranopia _will not see it at all_ - they’ll see red, white, and white (some have described the second what as being a bit dimmer or someone off, but not sufficiently different to allow them to use the light signals). Those who have problems with red perception will likewise either see an alternate triad or just two whites + one other color. _As a general rule_ those with -anomaly will be able to pass a lightgun test. Those with -anopia will not. There are exceptions and factors that can affect real-world performance that go beyond those distinctions, but I’m going to stop here. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/7 "2012-06-07T04:21:37Z")
Broomstick, that was a very good summary explanation. Can the pilot go to an FAA doctor and take the test as a non-aviation medical exam without getting busted? ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/8 "2012-06-07T04:33:48Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > If I tell you I am deuteranomalous that tells you I can see green, but not as well as the average person. Grass is green, and (most) tree leaves are green, but “aviation green” is actually _blue_ to me… but a blue different from any other light signal used in aviation so I can reliably use light signals. As it is useless to argue with the US government I have agreed to call those light signals “green” to avoid confusion. How are you on the white-and-green beacons at night. I did a night training flight around the Twin Cities to about six different suburban airports. Amid all the street lights and parking lots, the beacon was the only way I found one of the fields. I remember the green not being terribly vibrant. I would think finding white and pale blue would be tricky. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/9 "2012-06-07T05:02:48Z")
[Obligatory link to one of the world’s greatest t-shirts.](http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/fuck-the-colorblind/) ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/10 "2012-06-07T05:05:39Z")
Read this as **any _other_ blind pilots out there?** Eek. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/11 "2012-06-07T05:10:07Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > [Obligatory link to one of the world’s greatest t-shirts.](http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/fuck-the-colorblind/) OK, that made me laugh out loud. Would have to clean it up a bit before I’d wear it. ---
**Author:** ![Curiosity\_Kills\_Her](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@Curiosity\_Kills\_Her](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Curiosity_Kills_Her)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/12 "2012-06-07T05:23:52Z")
Blind Pilot, in color. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/xU_QivY9pjI/maxresdefault.jpg "Blind Pilot - We Are The Tide (Live on KEXP)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU_QivY9pjI&t=30s) It’s all I’ve got to offer. ---
**Author:** ![grama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/7cd45c/32.png) [@grama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grama)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/13 "2012-06-07T11:21:03Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > [Obligatory link to one of the world’s greatest t-shirts.](http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/fuck-the-colorblind/) would’ve found it funnier if i couldn’t read it… ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/14 "2012-06-07T12:29:03Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > How are you on the white-and-green beacons at night. I did a night training flight around the Twin Cities to about six different suburban airports. Amid all the street lights and parking lots, the beacon was the only way I found one of the fields. I remember the green not being terribly vibrant. I would think finding white and pale blue would be tricky. Yep, it’s a bit tricky, however, it’s doable for me. I _also_ tend to be real anal about reviewing navigation information and confirming my location when flying, but especially at night. It is harder for me to see those beacons at night than it is for the color normal, but at times I have out-performed color-normal pilots along with me. I can only assume it’s because I’m working to compensate and perhaps they are overconfident/complacent. ---
**Author:** ![Arabella\_Flynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8491ac/32.png) [@Arabella\_Flynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arabella_Flynn)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/15 "2012-06-07T21:45:00Z")
I know one, but I don’t think he had any issues – he’s just colorblind enough to scuttle plans to be a fighter pilot, but I spent an evening chucking the various test plates at him once, and the only one he actually failed was the same-saturation seafoam-and-salmon one, which is remarkably obnoxious even for people with normal color vision. He hasn’t mentioned any restrictions, but I haven’t specifically asked if he’s rated for night or instrument flying either. I think as long as you can pass the standard tests mentioned above, you’re good to go. ---
**Author:** ![ducati](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/cc9497/32.png) [@ducati](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ducati)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/16 "2012-06-08T22:53:45Z")
Yeah, I had pretty much perfect SAT, ACT and ASVAB scores, and the Navy recruiter was at my door saluting my CPO dad before I graduated, promising the moon, the stars, and my own jet plane. I was his best friend until he found out I was color-blind. From then on, it was like I was a debt collector! Bastards! ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/17 "2012-06-09T04:19:10Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Broomstick, that was a very good summary explanation. Can the pilot go to an FAA doctor and take the test as a non-aviation medical exam without getting busted? Why would you go do an eye specialist affiliated in any way with the FAA if you are afraid that failing would “bust” you? It’s their _job_ to bust you if you fail. You should go to some other eye specialist and be tested on your type and degree of colorblindness. They may not be able to give you the exact same test used by the FAA, because they don’t have the same lights that airports do. But they can certainly give you advice, and they would be obliged to keep any results and conversations confidential. So what’s the deal with these lights? From the discussion, it seems to be more than just about the lights laid out on the ground to guide planes in. Is that correct? Am I getting that someone in a tower is going to use light-coded lamps to communicate with pilots in the air? Why would they do this – aren’t there requirements for two-way radios? And if the plane’s radio fails, are pilots supposed to tote around some kind of emergency backup comm flashlight in the plane? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/18 "2012-06-09T05:58:30Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Why would you go do an eye specialist affiliated in any way with the FAA if you are afraid that failing would “bust” you? It’s their _job_ to bust you if you fail. > > You should go to some other eye specialist and be tested on your type and degree of colorblindness. They may not be able to give you the exact same test used by the FAA, because they don’t have the same lights that airports do. But they can certainly give you advice, and they would be obliged to keep any results and conversations confidential. > > So what’s the deal with these lights? From the discussion, it seems to be more than just about the lights laid out on the ground to guide planes in. Is that correct? Am I getting that someone in a tower is going to use light-coded lamps to communicate with pilots in the air? Why would they do this – aren’t there requirements for two-way radios? And if the plane’s radio fails, are pilots supposed to tote around some kind of emergency backup comm flashlight in the plane? Yes, the tower has a light gun and there are specific colors and flash codes to communicate information. It’s for pilots without a radio or in emergencies when a radio fails. On my very first flight with passengers (after getting my private license) the !@#% radio transmitter died after I was handed off to the tower. Luckily the receiver worked and I could acknowledge radio calls by flashing the landing lights. Nobody remembers the damn color codes but they’re printed on kneeboards which most pilots carry if for no other reason than to have the info handy. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/19 "2012-06-09T06:00:54Z")
I found a website with videos of gun signals and the student in question was able to distinguish the colors. I think the route to take is to certify her via actual gun signals at an airport by a pilot friendly FAA certified doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2012, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-color-blind-pilots-out-there/624330/20 "2012-06-09T11:24:14Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Why would you go do an eye specialist affiliated in any way with the FAA if you are afraid that failing would “bust” you? It’s their _job_ to bust you if you fail. You can go to an FAA medical examiner, most of whom are regular doctors who do the FAA exams on the side, and request an exam that is NOT an official FAA exam but rather looks you over to see if you would have a problem, which gives you an opportunity to resolve such problems prior to going to an official exam. This is in no way cheating and is known about and condoned, even encouraged to some degree, by the FAA. > [@](#): > > You should go to some other eye specialist and be tested on your type and degree of colorblindness. They may not be able to give you the exact same test used by the FAA, because they don’t have the same lights that airports do. But they can certainly give you advice, and they would be obliged to keep any results and conversations confidential. Other specialists are not familiar with the FAA rules and regulations and might well give you poor advice, such as stating “you can’t get a license”. That is untrue. The FAA does allow colorblind people to fly, but in some instances will put restrictions on their license. The FAA, on a certain level, doesn’t care about the details of a pilot’s colorblindness. What the FAA is concerned about is that you can safely operate in the flying environment. That’s why they use the actual light guns to test you instead of sending you off for a medical test. The FAA test is whether or not you can utilize the actual signals in the real world. Also, when you go to the official FAA medical exam you are required to sign a document that gives the FAA access to all your medical records. You don’t get to keep some secret. You give the government the right to access ALL your medical information. If you don’t, you don’t get the medical certificate. > [@](#): > > So what’s the deal with these lights? From the discussion, it seems to be more than just about the lights laid out on the ground to guide planes in. Is that correct? Am I getting that someone in a tower is going to use light-coded lamps to communicate with pilots in the air? Why would they do this – aren’t there requirements for two-way radios? Radios can and do fail. > [@](#): > > And if the plane’s radio fails, are pilots supposed to tote around some kind of emergency backup comm flashlight in the plane? Nope. First of alll, those lightguns are pretty big, wouldn’t fit in the cockpit very well. The pilot responds either by things like rocking the wings, flashing the airplane’s lights, or by his/her actions in response to the signal. If you’re too colorblind to pass the test you are issued a license with the notation that you aren’t permitted to fly by use of light signals or at night (there are issues with the airplane running lights at night)