# Any conservatives want to defend Palin on these quotes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625 "2009-11-15T02:42:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Cleveland_Steamer)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/1 "2009-11-15T02:42:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Elsewhere in this volume, she talks about creationism, saying she “didn’t believe in the theory that human beings — thinking, loving beings — originated from fish that sprouted legs and crawled out of the sea” or from “monkeys who eventually swung down from the trees.” In everything that happens to her, from meeting Todd to her selection by Mr. McCain for the Republican ticket, she sees the hand of God: “My life is in His hands. I encourage readers to do what I did many years ago, invite Him in to take over.” Wow. What an idiot. Can anyone defend this crap? ---
**Author:** ![statsman1982](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e79b87/32.png) [@statsman1982](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/statsman1982)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/2 "2009-11-15T02:53:31Z")
I’m not a conservative, but I can see many of them saying, “What’s the problem here.” I grew up, and currently live, in a very conservative part of Texas (just let THAT sink in 🙂 ) and many of the people here advocate, with the straightest of faces, that it is best if one lets God take over every part of their lives. It’s an attitude that lets them justify dismissing science and logic on the grounds that “Man’s wisdom is God’s folly.” In other words, even though an idea makes sense scientifically and/or logically, what God says (or better, what some people think he says in “the” Bible") always wins out. And even on matters that the Bible doesn’t speak about, such as evolution, some staunch conservatives will have a vague sense that attributing the origin of homo sapiens to anything but two people in a magical garden is blasphemy. Sad but true. This is not to say that being a conservative is tantamount to being a religious nut (there are several conservatives on this board that I wager don’t believe this stuff). But there is a large amount of overlap in the Venn diagram between the religious and the politically conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/3 "2009-11-15T03:20:42Z")
It’s easy to forget sometimes that Christianity - real, believing Christianity - has 2,000 years behind it. 2,000 long years, century after century after century of people believing - really, truly believing - in God. Conquering nations, constructing cities, building cathedrals, creating art, sculpture, music, all in the name of God. I’ll never understand peoples’ indignant surprise that there are “still” people out there that literally believe in their religion’s scriptures. _This board is not a representative sample of America or the world._ ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/4 "2009-11-15T03:27:30Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > It’s easy to forget sometimes that Christianity - real, believing Christianity - has 2,000 years behind it. 2,000 long years, century after century after century of people believing - really, truly believing - in God. Conquering nations, constructing cities, building cathedrals, creating art, sculpture, music, all in the name of God. I’ll never understand peoples’ indignant surprise that there are “still” people out there that literally believe in their religion’s scriptures. _This board is not a representative sample of America or the world._ So? Most of those people’s ancestors believed in all sorts of other nonsense as well; from magic to fairies. Somehow they seem to have managed to shed those particular bits of superstition. They still believe in Christianity because they are willful fools, not because they lack the capability to enlighten themselves; otherwise they _ **still** _ would believe in fairies and all the rest. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/5 "2009-11-15T03:40:42Z")
> [@The\_Cleveland\_Steamer](#): > > Wow. What an idiot. > > Can anyone defend this crap? I’m going to let this simmer in Great Debates for a while in the hope that an actual discussioin breaks out, but with a well so thoroughly poisoned by the OP, itself, I suspect that I will be sending this to the BBQ Pit fairly soon. If you would like to engage in a serious discussion, let me know, I will close this and let you open a new thread with a modicum of civilty. [/Modding] ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/6 "2009-11-15T03:44:24Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > So? Most of those people’s ancestors believed in all sorts of other nonsense as well; from magic to fairies. Which just proves my point. Religion is so universal that it’s been with mankind practically as long as mankind itself has been around. Breaking out of this conditioning is the exception and _not_ the rule. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/7 "2009-11-15T03:50:58Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Which just proves my point. Religion is so universal that it’s been with mankind practically as long as mankind itself has been around. Breaking out of this conditioning is the exception and _not_ the rule. But surely the considerable majority of Christians, as with the population in general, believes in evolution in the U.S.? So far as creationism is “conditioned”, at least in this example, surely it’s continuing to believe that is the exception? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/8 "2009-11-15T03:53:47Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > But surely the considerable majority of Christians, as with the population in general, believes in evolution in the U.S.? So far as creationism is “conditioned”, at least in this example, surely it’s continuing to believe that is the exception? Nope > **[On Darwin’s Birthday, Only 4 in 10 Believe in Evolution](https://news.gallup.com/poll/114544/darwin-birthday-believe-evolution.aspx)** > > On the eve of the 200th anniversary of Charles Darwin’s birth, new Gallup polling shows that only 39% of Americans say they “believe in the theory of evolution,” while a quarter say they do not believe in the theory, and another 36% don’t have an... > [@](#): > > On Darwin’s Birthday, Only 4 in 10 Believe in Evolution ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/9 "2009-11-15T03:59:32Z")
I don’t think i’ve ever been unhappier to have been proved wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/10 "2009-11-15T04:04:48Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Which just proves my point. Religion is so universal that it’s been with mankind practically as long as mankind itself has been around. So has belief in magic, yet that is no longer the norm. Of course, unlike religion we don’t feel it necessary to bend over backward pretending that belief in magic should be treated as reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/11 "2009-11-15T04:09:05Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > It’s easy to forget sometimes that Christianity - real, believing Christianity - has 2,000 years behind it. 2,000 long years, century after century after century of people believing - really, truly believing - in God. Conquering nations, constructing cities, building cathedrals, creating art, sculpture, music, all in the name of God. I’ll never understand peoples’ indignant surprise that there are “still” people out there that literally believe in their religion’s scriptures. _This board is not a representative sample of America or the world._ Neither was the kind of Christianity nor the type of creationism put forward by Palin. > **[The Witch Hunter Anoints Sarah Palin](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-witch-hunter-anoints_b_128805)** > > By the end of the second day of Thomas Muthee's sermons at Wasilla Assembly of God, the church had been tipped off about me, the liberal media member in its midst. > [@](#): > > The Witch Hunter Anoints Sarah Palin Pentecostals are not a very good representative sample in America. > **[Religion in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States)** > > .mw-parser-output .smooth-pie{display:none;position:relative;width:100px;height:100px;border-radius:50%;background-color:#333;color:black;border:1px solid black}.mw-parser-output .smooth-pie div{position:absolute;transform-origin:left bottom;background-color:#655;color:black;top:0;left:50%;width:50%;height:50%;border-radius:0 500%0 0}.mw-parser-output .smooth-pie div.pie50{transform-origin:left center;height:100%;border-radius:0 100%100%0/50%}.mw-parser-output .smooth-pie .pie12-5{clip-path:p... > **[Is Sarah Palin a Creationist?](https://www.livescience.com/2823-sarah-palin-creationist.html)** > > It is hard to tell whether Palin herself is a creationist or not. > [@](#): > > An article in the Anchorage Daily News dating back to when Palin was running for governor of that state (hmm, a mere two years ago, talk about experience and being fit to be commander in chief), reports her response to a question during a debate about teaching creationism. Here is the full quote: > > “Teach both. You know, don’t be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important and it’s so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both. And you know, I say this too as the daughter of a science teacher. Growing up with being so privileged and blessed to be given a lot of information on, on both sides of the subject – creationism and evolution. It’s been a healthy foundation for me. But don’t be afraid of information and let kids debate both sides.” > > Now this is disingenuous at best. Education is not about having “kids debate both sides,” since most kids would probably conclude that the earth is flat and at the center of the universe (after all, the sensorial evidence is overwhelming in favor of the flat-earth, Ptolemaic system). Education is, at its core, about two things: a) We want our students to have access to the best of what humanity has produced, be that in science, philosophy, literature, economics or what have you. b) We want to provide students with the necessary tools to engage in critical thinking and serious analysis of whatever claim comes under their scrutiny. > > According to criterion (a), “teaching both” isn’t going to cut it, because creationism is simply not even in the ballpark of the best ideas ever produced by humanity. On the contrary, it is superstitious nonsense that harks back to an earlier era of ignorance about how the world works. And it is important to point out that creationists are divided, and they are even less capable of being a representative sample of America: > **[News Archives](https://www.findarticles.com/news/)** > > Explore the News Articles featuring Technology, Business, Entertainment, and Science & Health topics. Access reports, insights, and stories. > [@](#): > > “I’m a creationist,” the teacher needs to ask, “What kind?” ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/12 "2009-11-15T04:12:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Elsewhere in this volume, she talks about creationism, saying she “didn’t believe in the theory that human beings — thinking, loving beings — originated from fish that sprouted legs and crawled out of the sea” or from “monkeys who eventually swung down from the trees.” Well, I wouldn’t believe such a ridiculous theory either, if there were such a thing. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/13 "2009-11-15T04:17:27Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Nope > [On Darwin’s Birthday, Only 4 in 10 Believe in Evolution](http://www.gallup.com/poll/114544/darwin-birthday-believe-evolution.aspx) Not quite, the second group was the “36% that don’t have an opinion either way” Only 25% were willing to say that they did not believe in evolution. Bad, but not as terrible, it is clear to me that most Americans would still have serious doubts on putting creationism into the school science curriculum. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/14 "2009-11-15T04:23:35Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > So has belief in magic, yet that is no longer the norm. Of course, unlike religion we don’t feel it necessary to bend over backward pretending that belief in magic should be treated as reasonable. You’re distinguishing between magic and religion as if they are different things. They aren’t. What we now call mainstream religion is really just an extension of the magic people believed in before there were mainstream religions. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/15 "2009-11-15T04:23:44Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > Well, I wouldn’t believe such a ridiculous theory either, if there were such a thing. I think most Christians probably don’t really believe in the Adam & Eve version of creation. Where the rub is, I believe, is that in speaking of evolution the prevalent idea is that evolutionists are saying that some living cell somehow got sparked in some random way and that all life as we now know it grew and evolved from that, and IMO that’s as unlikely and hard to believe as is any religious belief. Why, for example, didn’t that randomly created cell just die, like one would expect. And if it didn’t die, how did it replicate? And if it did replicate, why was it necessary to devolop even more sophisticated ways of replication? And if it could already get around and eat and reproduce, why did it need to develop eyes (and how could something as complex and multi-facted as a visual system develop on it’s own just because it would be handy)? And how and why develop teeth and an extemely complex digestive tract if the organism was already eating and sustaining itself? Etc., etc., etc. Human and animal life and everything about it is extremely complex and it’s hard for most people to grasp how any of it could have “just happened,” which is what I think most people believe evolutionists are saying. (And then there’s the possiblilty that evolution was just God’s way of creating and growing life in the first place. So even if a person comes to find legitimacy in the idea of evolution itself, it doesn’t necessarily disprove to them the existence of God.) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/16 "2009-11-15T04:29:49Z")
Only 6-12% of scientists identify with the GOP. No idea why. > **[Section 4: Scientists, Politics and Religion](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2009/07/09/section-4-scientists-politics-and-religion/)** > > Politics and science have become entangled on numerous occasions over the past several years. Conservatives have grown increasingly skeptical of the Most scientists identify as Democrats (55%), while 32% identify as independents and just 6% say they are Republicans. When the leanings of independents are considered, fully 81% identify as Democrats or lean to the Democratic Party, compared with 12% who either identify as Republicans or lean toward the GOP. Among the public, there are far fewer self-described Democrats (35%) and far more Republicans (23%). Overall, 52% of the public identifies as Democratic or leans Democratic, while 35% identifies as Republican or leans Republican. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/17 "2009-11-15T04:31:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Why, for example, didn’t that randomly created cell just die, like one would expect. How do you know it didn’t? If one randomly created cell is possible, more than one randomly created cell is also possible - perhaps there were many millions, many billions, many vast-number of cells that died. A billion-to-one chance isn’t so unlikely if you have a billion chances and only need one to work. As for the rest of it, pretty much the short answer is “natural selection”, I would guess. (Not sure if this is actually your argument or you phrasing the arguments of others, but you did say the subject was in general hard for you to believe). ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/18 "2009-11-15T04:35:31Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > It’s easy to forget sometimes that Christianity - real, believing Christianity - has 2,000 years behind it. 2,000 long years, century after century after century of people believing - really, truly believing - in God. Conquering nations, constructing cities, building cathedrals, creating art, sculpture, music, all in the name of God. I’ll never understand peoples’ indignant surprise that there are “still” people out there that literally believe in their religion’s scriptures. _This board is not a representative sample of America or the world._ But not only id iy ytur yhsy Christianity != Fundamentalism ,but Christianity has NEVER equaled fundamentalism. The earliest Christian commentaries on Genesis give it a non-literalist, symbolic reading. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/19 "2009-11-15T04:37:44Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > So? Most of those people’s ancestors believed in all sorts of other nonsense as well; from magic to fairies. Somehow they seem to have managed to shed those particular bits of superstition. They still believe in Christianity because they are willful fools, not because they lack the capability to enlighten themselves; otherwise they _ **still** _ would believe in fairies and all the rest. Do you still believe in phlogiston and Piltdown Man? Or do you have critical faculties enabling you to distinguish between good and bad science? If the latter, why do you assume all religionists are bereft of them? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625/20 "2009-11-15T04:50:58Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > How do you know it didn’t? If one randomly created cell is possible, more than one randomly created cell is also possible - perhaps there were many millions, many billions, many vast-number of cells that died. A billion-to-one chance isn’t so unlikely if you have a billion chances and only need one to work. As for the rest of it, pretty much the short answer is “natural selection”, I would guess. Yes, but remember, that highly unlikely event is only the beginning. How does the cell survive? How does it reproduce? And if it is surviving and reproducing, how is it managing to develop the highly complex electrical and chemical and organic systems that have developed in its wake when there is no apparent need for them in the first place? I don’t think these questions can be answered merely by laying them at the feet of natual selection. > [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > (Not sure if this is actually your argument or you phrasing the arguments of others, but you did say the subject was in general hard for you to believe). Pretty much 50/50. 😃 But I will say I find it very hard to believe that organisms could develop teeth and eyes and split into opposite sexes, both of which are necessary for reproduction (and why would this be necessary if the organism was already reproducing…and how could the transition be made without the organism dying in the process even if the need to make such a transition should suddenly spring forth in the first place? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-conservatives-want-to-defend-palin-on-these-quotes/517625.md?page=2)