# Any cultures give up on agriculture? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 9, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348 "2015-08-09T01:08:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/1 "2015-08-09T01:08:06Z")
Did any cultures that previously used agriculture end up giving it up completely? Also what about the domestication of animals? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/2 "2015-08-09T01:17:29Z")
North American Indians are the first example I can think of. 90% or more of the Indians in North America were farmers in 1491, a few hundred years of population crashes and forced migration later most of the survivors were hunter gatherers. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/3 "2015-08-09T03:07:43Z")
The reason I’m asking is to do with the Bible. I think Adam and Cain were farmers while Abel domesticated animals. I wonder if it is reasonable to believe some of their descendants lost this knowledge. Any more examples would be appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/4 "2015-08-09T03:21:35Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > North American Indians are the first example I can think of. 90% or more of the Indians in North America were farmers in 1491, a few hundred years of population crashes and forced migration later most of the survivors were hunter gatherers. I don’t know if any two scholars agree on exactly how many Native Americans lived in different areas. If most lived in the Andes and Mesoamerica, where millions of people lived, they continued to farm all through the colonial era to the present. The Plains groups took up hunting buffalo, as opposed to corn/vegetable farming once they acquired horses and metal tools. I am not sure if they completely gave up all farming or gardening, but they certainly transitioned from a farming way of life to a more migratory hunting lifestyle. I thought the OP might also be asking if a post-industrial society has essentially all abandoned farming of its own and completely depends on external sources. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/5 "2015-08-09T03:25:16Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > The reason I’m asking is to do with the Bible. I think Adam and Cain were farmers while Abel domesticated animals. I wonder if it is reasonable to believe some of their descendants lost this knowledge. Any more examples would be appreciated. Skipping the side issues, domestication of animals is part of agriculture. And supposing the bible story to be true some of their descendants certainly lost that knowledge. My great grandparents were farmers and none of that knowledge was passed down to me. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/6 "2015-08-09T03:31:33Z")
By losing the knowledge I mean not even being aware of the possibility of agriculture. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/7 "2015-08-09T03:42:43Z")
Seems likely that some people reverted to a hunter/gatherer state. The Neolithic Revolution started around 12,000 years ago. Since then some groups of people must have become isolated and given up on farming. But it was probably circumstances that drove them to that where agriculture couldn’t work in their environment, not because hunting and gathering seemed like a better option. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/8 "2015-08-09T04:21:19Z")
I thought in places like Australia the natives could have planted and watered things near rivers and lakes… ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/9 "2015-08-09T04:30:55Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > I thought in places like Australia the natives could have planted and watered things near rivers and lakes… If they did they didn’t get the knowledge from Adam, he wouldn’t be born until 40,000 years after they got there. ---
**Author:** ![JohnClay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c37758/32.png) [@JohnClay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnClay)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/10 "2015-08-09T04:37:36Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > If they did they didn’t get the knowledge from Adam, he wouldn’t be born until 40,000 years after they got there. If there was a global flood that means everyone is descended from Noah and that 40,000 year figure is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/11 "2015-08-09T04:43:11Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > If there was a global flood that means everyone is descended from Noah and that 40,000 year figure is wrong. Your logic is correct. So is the 40,000 year figure (within some margin of error which isn’t big enough to indicate a global flood). ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/12 "2015-08-09T05:33:26Z")
In Tolkiens Middle Earth the dwarfs did almost no farming but instead, focused on mining and refining raw metals and traded for food. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/13 "2015-08-09T05:37:25Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > In Tolkiens Middle Earth the dwarfs did almost no farming but instead, focused on mining and refining raw metals and traded for food. That’s very interesting. Did they have agricultural ancestors? It makes a lot of sense that dwarves would be miners and smelters instead of farmers. I think you’ve found a case that would satisfy the OPs parameters. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/14 "2015-08-09T05:39:39Z")
Lots of the people’s in the Sahara and the Arabian Peninsula gave up farming in favour of nomadic lifestyle, after climate change. ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/15 "2015-08-09T05:59:19Z")
I’m a litlle confused. Is JohnClay asking for archaeological evidence that confirms the Bible, or that contradicts it? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/16 "2015-08-09T06:26:35Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > North American Indians are the first example I can think of. 90% or more of the Indians in North America were farmers in 1491, a few hundred years of population crashes and forced migration later most of the survivors were hunter gatherers. What is your source that most of the Amerindians became hunter-gatherers? When the English began settling in North America in the 1600s, most of the native population were farmers. Hunter-gatherers would be widely dispersed in small groups, but all up and down the Eastern part of what is now the US there were settlements of farmers. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > In Tolkiens Middle Earth the dwarfs did almost no farming but instead, focused on mining and refining raw metals and traded for food. > [@JohnClay](#): > > The reason I’m asking is to do with the Bible. I think Adam and Cain were farmers while Abel domesticated animals. I wonder if it is reasonable to believe some of their descendants lost this knowledge. Any more examples would be appreciated Both of those groups are fictional. Is the OP asking about fictional characters? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/17 "2015-08-09T06:28:45Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > I’m a litlle confused. Is JohnClay asking for archaeological evidence that confirms the Bible, or that contradicts it? I don’t think it’s you that’s confused. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/18 "2015-08-09T06:29:13Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > That’s very interesting. Did they have agricultural ancestors? It makes a lot of sense that dwarves would be miners and smelters instead of farmers. I think you’ve found a case that would satisfy the OPs parameters. Some dwarves in the first age grew a strange crop they called “earth bread”, which must have been some sort of potato. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/19 "2015-08-09T06:34:35Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > If there was a global flood that means everyone is descended from Noah and that 40,000 year figure is wrong. There is no evidence of a global flood after the emergence of _H. sapiens_ ~200k years ago and no evidence of historical figure “Noah”. Did you mean for this to be a Cafe Society thread discussing fiction? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2015, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348/20 "2015-08-09T06:39:17Z")
> [@JohnClay](#): > > By losing the knowledge I mean not even being aware of the possibility of agriculture. Unlikely. Even the few tribes in the Americas who did take up a H/G lifestyle would have had contact with farmers. Farming is a very successful lifestyle, and it’s unlikely to have been established in an area and then completely lost to the point where no contact at all with those still farming would be possible. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-cultures-give-up-on-agriculture/727348.md?page=2)