# Any Disputed US State Borders? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 2, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-disputed-us-state-borders/770437 "2016-11-02T13:52:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-disputed-us-state-borders/770437/41 "2016-11-04T08:45:12Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > Cue the obligatory joke that Michigan won because Ohio got stuck with Toledo 😉 Actually, Michigan did win in the end, though they thought they had lost. Nut in exchange, Michigan got the Upper Peninsula (taken away from Wisconsin – not even a part of the war or lawsuits, but the big loser). And the UP turned out to be a great asset, economically – lots of timber, plus some mining. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-disputed-us-state-borders/770437/42 "2016-11-04T13:29:45Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > The entire house is deemed to be in the state where it’s “front door” is. The same applies to any surrounding dooryard and any outbuildings, which are in the same state as the front dor of the main houser. As a guess, I’d say this is also grandfathered, so you can’t move your house from one state to another just by bricking in the front door and putting your doorbell in the back. That also defines your state of residence for purpose of car plates and insurance, no matter where you park it. My understanding, from a detailed talk about plats and boundaries years ago, is that domiciles that straddle a boundary are assigned location based on: [ol] [li]All of building located on one side or the other.[/li][li]More than half of a building located on one side or the other.[/li][li]Master bedroom located on one side or the other. (Sometimes kitchen, if there is no defined MBR.)[/li][li]Location of the head of the bed in the MBR on one side or the other.[/li][/ol] #4 cracks me up but apparently it’s come down to that ten-foot diameter in a few disputed cases. Front door location is used to determine which street a corner or narrow-lot house is assigned to for addressing, but not necessarily for plat location or tax purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-disputed-us-state-borders/770437/43 "2016-11-04T13:59:06Z")
Not only state boundaries but also national boundaries can still be disputed. I know of two instances. The boundary between Quebec and Maine was adjusted some decades ago and a couple dozen houses moved from Quebec to Maine. They continue to get electricity from Hydro-Quebec, phones from Bell Canada and so on. They have no road connection to the US, all supplies (mostly untax cigarettes and gasoline arrive in bonded trucks. Curiously I could not find a Wiki cite for this. The second concerns the boundary between the Yukon and Alaska. There is a treaty that agrees to height of land for part of it. But the land is located beneath a mile-thick glacier and no one knows–or really cares–exactly where that is. Of course, given global warming, I suppose it could eventually be found. Here’s another curiosity. The line between VT and QC was supposedly the 45th parallel. But the 45th parallel is something like a half mile south of the actual border. Surveying error, yes, but why didn’t it get corrected? ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-disputed-us-state-borders/770437/44 "2016-11-04T16:44:53Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > Yeah, the local border is quite poorly defined (I live less than a mile from the NC-SC border, in the little enclave of SC known as Indian Land; see: border dispute at breakup of the Carolina colony for details :rolleyes: ). Several properties who’s owners thought were in NC are actually in SC, and vice versa. Fortunately, the states appear to be quite reasonable about solving the situation, both amicably resolving the inter-state dispute and at the same time protecting the property owners from the unexpected consequences, to the extent reasonably possible (things like, who supplies your electricity and gas?). > > The borders that are the worst are the east-west borders of the states east of the Mississippi River. That’s a combination of three things: > > 1. It’s HARD to draw East-West lines on the face of the Earth. I always got quizzical looks from my Geometry students about this (I mean, look at the map, you just go, you know, WEST!). Then I had them attempt it in Google Earth. They soon got the point: to go West, you have to constantly turn (to see this best, look at a polar projection map). In the 18th Century, when many of these borders were being delineated, that wasn’t easy. > > 2. It’s not easy to draw borders through forested hills/mountains. The border between the Carolinas, from just west of Charlotte on, exemplifies this problem. Unlike the border to the east (which suffered from the third problem on the list), it was surveyed by reasonably competent people. But it wanders, because going straight while going up and down hills and around trees ain’t easy. > > 3. Surveyors weren’t always the best back then. The border between NC and SC in the eastern part was notorious for being surveyed by men who were (allegedly) drunk on more than one occasion. This may account for the fact that they couldn’t draw a straight line, even on relatively flat ground. Might also account for the fact that they turned straight west about five to ten miles too soon. :eek: > > There’s a reason that the Mason-Dixon Line is famous, and it ISN’T because of the fact that Maryland was a slave state. It’s well-known as an example of really good surveying work. See for a general explanation the [article in Wikipedia.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mason%E2%80%93Dixon_line) I do feel bad for the people who own the gas station. Generally speaking, there’s a reason to place a gas station on one side or another of a state line. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-disputed-us-state-borders/770437/45 "2016-11-04T17:12:43Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > Actually, Michigan did win in the end, though they thought they had lost. Nut in exchange, Michigan got the Upper Peninsula (taken away from Wisconsin – not even a part of the war or lawsuits, but the big loser). And the UP turned out to be a great asset, economically – lots of timber, plus some mining. The original northern border of Illinois was also to be an east-west line that just touched the southern tip of Lake Michigan so that Chicago would have been in Wisconsin, so Wisconsin lost that as well. When the borders for Michigan Territory were set in 1836 (after IL was already established), it encompassed what is now Michigan, and Wisconsin territory was set as all of what is now Wisconsin, Minnesota and Iowa and parts of both of the Dakotas. If Wisconsin had still retained the UP of Michigan or the northern portion of Illinois, its later state boundaries might well have been different. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-disputed-us-state-borders/770437/46 "2016-11-04T19:15:07Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > But the 45th parallel is something like a half mile south of the actual border. Surveying error, yes, but why didn’t it get corrected? The “idealised” border tells the surveyors where to put the line, but it’s the line that the surveyors put down that becomes the border, generally speaking. Once the booundary is set, it’s a lot easier to keep it set, even though it isn’t in the technically correct place. (And lines of latitude and longitude depend to some extent on what reference system you are using, hence the Greenwich meridian being over 300ft off from where GPS units say 0 degrees longitude is.) ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-disputed-us-state-borders/770437/47 "2016-11-04T20:19:28Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Not only state boundaries but also national boundaries can still be disputed. I know of two instances. The boundary between Quebec and Maine was adjusted some decades ago and a couple dozen houses moved from Quebec to Maine. They continue to get electricity from Hydro-Quebec, phones from Bell Canada and so on. They have no road connection to the US, all supplies (mostly untax cigarettes and gasoline arrive in bonded trucks. Curiously I could not find a Wiki cite for this. Pretty sure I read about that in an old Ripley’s Believe It Or Not book from some random guest bathroom in the 1970s. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2016, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-disputed-us-state-borders/770437/48 "2016-11-04T23:32:05Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Not only state boundaries but also national boundaries can still be disputed. I know of two instances. The boundary between Quebec and Maine was adjusted some decades ago and a couple dozen houses moved from Quebec to Maine. They continue to get electricity from Hydro-Quebec, phones from Bell Canada and so on. They have no road connection to the US, all supplies (mostly untax cigarettes and gasoline arrive in bonded trucks. Curiously I could not find a Wiki cite for this. This may be it. The article doesn’t describe in detail how it ended up that way but the description matches yours. Even if that isn’t the same place, it is an interesting article that describes the complications of having the Maine-Quebec border literally running right through your house and property. Appartently you can wander around your own property all you want but you can’t leave it on the “wrong” side legally without clearing it with a customs agent. They have them on site (some of the time) to handle that need for those few people. _“Apart from people like Trudel whose properties straddle the line, but are considered residents of Canada, there are a handful of Americans who spend summers in Estcourt Station. A couple from Kentucky owns one of the units. It’s not the easiest place to relax, though: “They are expected to abide by our hours,” says Lebel. “On the weekends they need to be in their houses by 5 p.m. and can’t leave until Monday morning at 9 a.m.” Those are the hours of the border crossing.”_ > **[The Incredible Complications of Living Atop the U.S.-Canada Border](https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/the-incredible-complications-of-living-atop-the-us-canada-border)** > > The tough, restricted lives of the dozen people whose homes lie in both Maine and Quebec. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-disputed-us-state-borders/770437.md?page=2)