# Any Dopers fans of the Fountain Pen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 3, 2008, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084 "2008-01-03T03:14:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/21 "2008-01-08T01:47:41Z")
I’ve been looking for a Fine nib for my Waterman Phileas, I contacted the US distributor to find out the cost of a Fine nib… $30, almost the same price as an entire pen, and the nib would be shipped from France, France to New Hampshire, USA, I’d imagine that’d be a long shipping time… So I did some websearching, and found a more local E-tailer (well, New York, but closer than France) that sold the Waterman Kultur line, the Kultur is essentially a Phileas minus the brass weight in the barrel and a plain steel nib (the Phileas has a goldtone/steel two-tone nib) the Kultur is also transparent (I got the transparent/transparent orange body one) the Kultur and Phileas share the same nibs, the only difference is the two-tone finish on the Phileas, Kultur nibs will work just fine in a Phileas and the best part, the Kultur was only $16 on special (they’re generally around $25), a heck of a lot cheaper than a $30 nib shipped from France ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/22 "2008-01-08T02:01:01Z")
I am enticed by \*\*Hilarity N. Suze’\*\*s peacock blue Waterman ink. I’ve now seen the color online and now want some. Where do you all get your pens and inks? ---
**Author:** ![monica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a183cd/32.png) [@monica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monica)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/23 "2008-01-08T02:45:22Z")
[QUOTE=NicePete] Allow me to recommend the Pilot _Varsity_ disposable fountain pen. After years (decades?) of experimenting with cheap fountain pens, I’ve finally found one that’s worth it’s $2.00 sticker price. Doesn’t leak. Doesn’t clog. Travels well in a pocket. Writes like a fountain pen. [Check it out.](http://www06.quillcorp.com/Catalog/Browse/Sku.asp?PageType=1&sku=141454&EFFORT_CODE=901&FIND_NUMBER=90027) [/QUOTE] Were you able to find it in an actual, not-online store? If so, which one? ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/24 "2008-01-08T02:51:49Z")
I carry my grandfather’s white-dot Sheaffer (the model originally called a Lifetime, now better known as a Balanced). It’s black with pearl green inlay and was given him on his election to the Board of Aldermen in Bridgeport, CT, in 1933. I have a few modern pens around (Parker Duofolds), but the Sheaffer is heads and shoulders above them. The reason: _it was made to write with._ The nib is thin enough to make a legible line that will dry quickly. Today’s fountain pens are made to be gifts, with big bold nibs only useful for ceremonial writing like signing documents or addressing Christmas cards. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/25 "2008-01-10T04:01:36Z")
[QUOTE=monica] Were you able to find it in an actual, not-online store? If so, which one? [/QUOTE] I’ve seen them in Staples, but bear in mind, they’re not the best example of a FP, decent, yes, but the biggest flaw with them is they fold the tip of the nib back over itself to make the writing point, normal FP’s have a small “Iridium” tip on the nib, a small ball of exceptionally hard metal applied to the tines of the tip, as you write with an Iridium tipped pen, the tip slowly conforms to your writing style My Waterman Kultur came today, the [transparent orange body pen with fine nib](http://www.montgomerypens.com/Pens/Waterman_Phileas_Demonstrator_Transparent_Orange_Fountain_Pen_Fine_Nib_pr_732.html), it came in just a padded envelope, no ink cartridge or converter, just the pen, luckilly, i had a spare Waterman cartridge ready the Fine tip nib is awesome, it lays down a thin, precise line, and has a great paperfeel, just enough scratchiness/toothiness to let me feel the paper, not enough to be draggy or scrape-y, and watching the ink in the clear feed assembly is rather unique too I actually like the cheaper Kultur _better_ than the more expensive Phileas, that said, I _DO_ like the Phileas, as the brass weight in the barrel gives it a better balance when writing, so I guess, truth be told, I prefer the fine-point _NIB_ of the Kultur (and the cool transparent feed) better than the Medium Phileas nib I guess I should stock up on a few more fine-point Kulturs while they’re still available, as the Kultur has never really _actually_ been on sale in the States (Montgomery Pens imports them for sale) and they’ve been discontinued, I have a Medium point completely transparent one on the way already (I asked MP if they could swap the nib for a Fine, no big deal if they can’t) and if it’s a Medium point, I’ll try my hand at regrinding the nib to a Fine or Superfine, as I really only bought the clear one for the clear body and cap anyway Oh, and I also discovered that the orange plastic body of my Kultur flouresces under black light, cool, now all I need is some “invisible ink” to load it with… so, i figure a couple more fine-point Kulturs down the road, the flourescent yellow one, and maybe a more sedated gray or black one, and I’ll be set if you’re thinking about trying a FP, give the Kultur a try, or maybe even a Lamy (Vista or Safari) they’re affordable, and write well the Kultur has to be one of the best sleeper deals in Fountain Pens, the pen, a converter and a bottle of ink and you’re set for a while, heck, they’re cheap enough to maybe even convert into an “eyedropper” style pen (fill the barrel with ink, no cartridge or converter, put silicone threadlube on the threads of the nib assembly and screw them together, a FP with a huge ink supply (just don’t drop it, it could get messy…) ---
**Author:** ![633squadron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/ee59a6/32.png) [@633squadron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/633squadron)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/26 "2008-01-10T04:44:51Z")
[QUOTE=MacTech] Any other Dopers fans of the humble fountain pen? [/QUOTE] _What_ humble fountain pen!? I have a Lamy, a Mt. Blanc, a whole set of Rotrings, and a Levenger Newton in my current collection. My passion is for a crisp, precise line, so all of my nibs are fine or extra fine. The Newton is one of the best: silver-plated brass case and stainless steel nib with good heft, excellent action, and definite style. The Rotrings rule for precision, but that tubular nib can be balky. The Lamy, of course, is ultra-reliable and effortless. I was disappointed with the Mt. Blanc, but that is probably the nib rather than the pen. I happened on a deal for a medium nib, and found it too broad for my tastes. Having said all this, I confess that I often fall back on the office supply of Uni-ball Vision Exact Micro black roller balls. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/27 "2008-01-10T05:40:59Z")
[QUOTE=Heffalump and Roo] I am enticed by \*\*Hilarity N. Suze’\*\*s peacock blue Waterman ink. I’ve now seen the color online and now want some. Where do you all get your pens and inks? [/QUOTE] Some hobby stores sell them. Michael’s and Hobby Lobby here in Fort Worth both sell pens and refills. Hobby Lobby has a better color selection, though. I can find purple (amethyst, violet, whatever they’re calling it this week) and gold and other colors in HL, whereas Michael’s tends to more boring shades. I have different colors preferences for different purposes. I use purple for grocery and errand lists and my diary. I use green for noting appointments. And I use blueblack for general purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hilarity_n.suze/32/6223_2.png) [@Hilarity\_N.Suze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hilarity_N.Suze)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/28 "2008-01-10T06:03:29Z")
[QUOTE=Heffalump and Roo] I am enticed by \*\*Hilarity N. Suze’\*\*s peacock blue Waterman ink. I’ve now seen the color online and now want some. Where do you all get your pens and inks? [/QUOTE] The Waterman color (I now use only Waterman ink, no matter what brand of pen) is actually called South Seas Blue, is a little darker than Peacock Blue, and I get it at a hardware store. Guiry’s Hardware, which has a really fine section of all kinds of writing implements (in the art supplies section). You can even get the disposable Pilot fountain pens mentioned by NicePete. As a bonus, last spring they had a giant fountain pen show. I got to see a fountain pen that retailed for more than my house. And my son won a nice pen (gel ink, not fountain pen) as a door prize. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/29 "2008-01-10T06:14:22Z")
I bought myself a Montblanc Meisterstuck with a windfall grant to celebrate the end of my Art Institute career over 20 years ago. I’ve had it rebuilt twice–once after dropping it dead on the nib, and once when I put it through the washing machine–but it’s the only pen I’ve never managed to lose. I love it; it’s one of three or four things I will grab first when I finally set fire to my house. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/30 "2008-01-10T07:08:25Z")
[QUOTE=Lynn Bodoni] Some hobby stores sell them. Michael’s and Hobby Lobby here in Fort Worth both sell pens and refills. [/QUOTE] > [@Hilarity N. Suze](#): > > I get it at a hardware store. Thanks! Craft, hobby and hardware stores. I would never have thought to go there. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/31 "2008-01-10T14:59:55Z")
Interesting. I’d always assumed Parker was a British company. They’re almost ubiquitous in English private schools. I’ve got a (Mont Blanc) Meisterstuck tucked away in a box somewhere but I can’t stand writing with it. It occurs to me that I really ought to go out and find myself a new one. I hate ballpoints. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/32 "2008-01-15T23:44:04Z")
It’s refreshing when I discover an _honest_ company, a company who’s grandiose product claims are actually true, be it SureFire’s _under_reporing of their lumen outputs, or Spyderco’s truly _RUSTPROOF_ Salt series H-1 knives Add Noodler’s Ink company to that list… I just recieved my bottles of Noodler’s today (Luxury Blue and Manhattan Black), and was eagerly awaiting putting them to the torture test; for those people unaware of what the [Noodler’s ink](http://www.noodlersink.com/) company is, it’s a small one-man company, the owner makes a vast number of different fountain pen inks, ranging from vivid highlighter-style flourescent inks, to archival, water and chemical resistant inks that will outlast the paper it’s written on these inks are usually referred to as “Eternal”, “Permanent”, or “Bulletproof”, their pigment-based composition binds with the cellulose in paper, and they _cannot_ be washed out, sign a check or legal document with Noodler’s “Bulletproof” inks, and the ink cannot be washed out, altered or removed, not without destroying the paper in the process of course, such grandiose claims need to be verified before I’d believe them, so I proceeded to set up an impromptu “torture” test to see exactly _how_ “bulletproof” these inks are… I also inked the test papers with Waterman Blue-Black, a UniBall Signo 207, a Bic Crystal Gel, a Sharpie, a Fisher Bullet, and Zebra 701 the test paper was generic 20# bond scrap paper that had laser printer toner on the backside, I used two seperate sheets of paper, one would be exposed to common household solvents, the other, to the nastiest chemical I have onhand, the Xylene-based “Goof Off” remover stage 1, water exposure (1 minute running water)… Noodlers inks; unaffected Uni-Ball; unaffected Bic Crystal; slight feathering Sharpie; unaffected Fisher Bullet; unaffected Zebra 701; unaffected Waterman Blue-Black; 90% washed away Stage 2 (home solvents, soaked until saturation then air dried); Lysol Bathroom Cleaner with Bleach and the Goof Off 2 Citrus cleaner did nothing Formula 409 Glass and Surface cleaner; Noodlers inks; faint feathering Uni-Ball; distinct feathering Sharpie; unaffected Bic Crystal; slight feathering Fisher Bullet; unaffected Zebra 701; unaffected Waterman Blue-Black; 95% washed away Stage 3; Original Goof Off Xylene formula (also known as offset printing press deglazing solvent, the stuff used to clean ink off the printing press ink rollers) Noodlers inks; unaffected Uni-Ball; unaffected Bic Crystal; heavy feathering Sharpie; heavy feathering Fisher Bullet; light feathering Zebra 701; heavy feathering and ink seperating into base colors (yellow and black) Waterman Blue-Black; 99% washed away \*\*note, the Goof Off was also eating away at the laser printer toner on the back of the paper at this point, it’s nasty stuff… Stage 4; take the Formula 409 test sheet and expose it to water, let dry, then expose to Xylene; Noodlers inks; unaffected Uni-Ball; unaffected Bic Crystal; 90% gone Sharpie; heavy feathering and blurring Fisher Bullet; medium feathering Zebra 701; heavy feathering and ink seperating into base colors (yellow and black) 80% gone Waterman Blue-Black; washed away Stage 5; take the Xylene test sheet and expose it to Formula 409; Noodlers inks; unaffected Uni-Ball; unaffected Bic Crystal; 90% gone Sharpie; indistinct black blob Fisher Bullet; medium feathering Zebra 701; no further effects Waterman Blue-Black; out of the running Stage 6; expose the Xylene test sheet to water; Noodlers inks; unaffected Uni-Ball; unaffected Bic Crystal; 95% gone Sharpie; featureless black blob Fisher Bullet; medium-heavy feathering Zebra 701; no further effects Waterman Blue-Black; Disqualified, nothing there at all From this most unscientific (and confusing) test, I can gather the following info; the clear winners in this test are the Noodler’s “Bulletproof” inks, they _are_ truly eternal, any ink that can stand up to Xylene exposure so powerful that it strips toner off the _other side of the paper_ has real staying power, for some reason, however, the Noodlers took more damage from the 409 than from the Xylene, the 409 caused light feathering, but did not remove the ink from the paper for some reason, the 409 was a tougher test than the Xylene for the Noodlers, yet the Noodler’s shrugged off the Xylene which really hit the other inks bad the Uni-Ball Signo did surprisingly well, not bad for a $2 pen, the pigment-based ink it uses is almost as durable as the Noodlers the Sharpie was a surprise as well, it really was hit bad by the Xylene, and once damaged by it, other chemicals and even plain old water exposure really made it worse the Fisher bullet feathered more than i thought it would, but it wasn’t bad per se the two biggest dissapointments were the Waterman Blue-Black, that failed the simple water test, and the Bic Crystal Gel wich just did nothing well, it was mediocre all around the biggest surprise overall was the Zebra 701, it held up far longer than I thought it would So; final rankings; First Place; Noodler’s Luxury Blue and Manhattan Black, these inks are truly bulletproof Second Place; Uni-Ball Signo; in terms of durability per dollar, it’s a clear winner, the best value of any of the inks/pens Third Place; Fisher Bullet; it feathered more than expected, but ended up just a hair behind the Uni-Ball in final readability Honorable Mention; Zebra 701, it put up a valiant fight, and performed far better than expected, but ultimately it _did_ fail Biggest Dissapointments; Sharpie and Bic Crystal, just no real durability to speak of ---
**Author:** ![Hockey\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a183cd/32.png) [@Hockey\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hockey_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/33 "2008-01-16T00:49:31Z")
[QUOTE=NicePete] Allow me to recommend the Pilot _Varsity_ disposable fountain pen. After years (decades?) of experimenting with cheap fountain pens, I’ve finally found one that’s worth it’s $2.00 sticker price. Doesn’t leak. Doesn’t clog. Travels well in a pocket. Writes like a fountain pen. [Check it out.](http://www06.quillcorp.com/Catalog/Browse/Sku.asp?PageType=1&sku=141454&EFFORT_CODE=901&FIND_NUMBER=90027) [/QUOTE] I ordered some of these at work, and I’m quite pleased. Now if I can keep people from stealing them. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/34 "2008-01-16T02:08:15Z")
I get my black ink at Staples (Parker Quink), and my colored inks from Levenger. I inherited a gold plated Montblanc Meisterstück from a relative who had gotten it as a corporate freebie in the high flying '90s. This thing was as big as Castro’s cigar with a nib the size of a house key. It was no good for anything but maybe scrawling _Donald J. Trump_ on the sides of buildings you’d just bought. It’s sitting in a drawer somewhere as I write this. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/35 "2008-01-16T02:46:57Z")
It’s funny, i get the feeling that the Montblanc pens are generally looked down upon amongst the FP “Intelligensia”, they’re seen mainly as all flash, no substance kinda’ pen, a “Look how much money i have to waste on stupid crap” pen, the Rolex watch/ Cadillac Escalade/Lincoln Navigator of pens, all glitz, no substance any truth to this? what makes the MB “better”? after all, pens are merely devices to transfer ink to paper in a controlled manner, what makes a Meisterstruck _functionally_ better than, lets say a Parker Duofold, Waterman Expert, or even, say the lowly Waterman Phileas/Kultur series Bear in mind that I don’t care about meaningless fluff, precious metal trim, or “precious resin” (which in actuality is nothing more “precious” than standard plastic, yes, “Precious Resin” is nothing more than plastic that’s been tarted up and given a fancy name by the Marketing drones), if it doesn’t improve ink flow, line width, or ink consumption, it’s meaningless so, what makes Montblanc “better?” ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/36 "2008-01-16T03:57:41Z")
From what I’ve heard from various pen aficionados, Mont Blanc _used_ to be top notch back in the day. They offered the best technology, snazziest things, nicest ink, etc. etc. Problem is that they rested on their laurels. _Everyone_ knows how awesome Mont Blancs are… except that really, they’ve been surpassed by most other fountain pens. Others (Parker, Waterman, etc.) have spent the last few decades improving their pen technology (nibs, feeds, nib flexibility and strength, etc.) while Mont Blanc is the same. Mont Blanc’s technology is outdated now and there are better options available for those who want something that writes exceptionally. They still have the panache going for them, though. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/37 "2008-01-16T04:40:24Z")
[QUOTE=MacTech] so, what makes Montblanc “better?” [/QUOTE] Nothing. Think of them like a Rolex. ---
**Author:** ![Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heffalump_and_roo/32/7691_2.png) [@Heffalump\_and\_Roo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heffalump_and_Roo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/38 "2008-01-16T04:53:04Z")
Based on some of the info. in this thread, I went calling around and looking around for fountain pens in my area. I don’t have a Hobby Lobby in my state and Guiry is not in my state either, so that left Michael’s and another art supply store. When I called both those places, the people asked, “What’s a fountain pen?!” Seriously, people didn’t even know what they were. Even after I described it and spelled it, they didn’t know what I was talking about. Either I’m looking in the wrong places or fountain pens are becoming a rarity. I did find the Waterman Phileas at my local Staples store and I’ve bought the Pilot Varsity pens there before. But that’s about it so far. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/39 "2008-01-16T09:41:41Z")
I used them all the time at school, I miss them somewhat but they’re not great for scribbling in an office. My sister brought back a lovely pen from Venice, I really need to pick up a bottle of ink for it to use it. The stem of the pen is a spiral of [Murano glass](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murano_glass). I got a Fisher Space Pen for a birthday years ago and the ink in it gummed up and became unusable. The pen wasn’t used frequently, but I thought the big deal was that it would sit for ages then work as new. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084/40 "2008-01-16T19:24:20Z")
I’m having so much fun torturing inks that I decided to perform another couple tests… Hmm, I was looking through my old aquarium supplies, and found a bottle of Melafix (1% Melaleuca Alternafolia Tea Tree oil), Melaleuca oil is a very powerful natural solvent, even 1% is very pungent, has a kind of pine-y, citruss-y aroma So I grabbed another sheet; Noodler’s Luxury Blue and Manhattan Black; definite feathering and runniness, probably 10-15% depending on how heavy the ink was laid down, definite blurring of letters, still readable though, and obvious that the ink had been tampered with Cross Fine-Point ball-point; maybe 5% feathering Fisher Space Pen; 30% or so feathering, this one was hit hard by the melaleuca oil, letters are getting a little blobby Waterman Blue-Black; GONE! nothing but a blue blur Parker Quink; GONE! nothing but a black blur expose the melaleuca treated sheet to water… …Fascinating… the Noodlers inks actually got _less_ feathery, it looks like the water was simply washing away some of the ink that didn’t bond with the paper, ink that the melaleuca oil loosened Cross; same thing, a little sharper Fisher; same thing; the water was simply washing away the “excess” ink that didn’t bond with the paper Waterman Blue Black; wait a minute, I’m _sure_ i wrote something here, but there’s nothing to see, no evidence of ink… Parker Quink; same thing, nothing there so, the powerful solvent Melaleuca oil only loosened the excess ink on the Noodler’s, Cross and Fisher line, but obliterated Quink and Waterman B/B… then again, obliterating Waterman B/B and Quink isn’t exactly difficult then, is it? after all, they’re a water-based, washable ink So today at work, I decided to do a little “Check Washing” test, I grabbed one of my old voided checks, and inked it up with Noodlers, the Uni-Ball Signo 207, a generic Paper-Mate ball-point, a Bic Crystal Gel, a Fisher Bullet, and Zebra 701 ball-point, the check was allowed to dry completely between “treatments” Test 1; Xylene exposure; Noodlers; unaffected Uni-Ball Signo; unaffected Bic Gel; unaffected Paper-Mate Ball-point; _heavy_ feathering, and 50% reduction in ink intensity Fisher Bullet; heavy feathering, but otherwise unaffected Zebra 701; unaffected Anti-Tampering features of the check; activated, the check is riddled with red and blue spots which do not fade after the xylene dries, it’s obvious the check has been tampered with Test 2; expose the Xylene-d check to a water rinse (one minute, hot water) Noodlers; unaffected Uni-Ball Signo; unaffected Bic Gel; 90% washed away, only a faint residue of ink remains Paper-Mate Ball-point; 95% washed away, almost completely gone Fisher Bullet; heavy blobbing, the letters are starting to run together Zebra 701; 10% reduction in ink intensity Anti-Tampering features of the check; activated, the spots become more prominent with water exposure Test 3; Expose the Xylene-d and hot water rinsed check to 409; at this point, the check is unusable anyway, so at this point, all I’m trying to do is remove the Noodler’s and Uni-Ball inks, both inks are pigment-based and bond with the cellulose fibers in the paper, in theory, making them unremovable without damaging the paper in the process Noodlers; unaffected Uni-Ball Signo; unaffected Bic Gel; 97% washed away, only a faint residue of ink remains Paper-Mate Ball-point; 98% washed away, almost completely gone Fisher Bullet; heavy blobbing, the letters are starting to run together Zebra 701; 50% reduction in ink intensity, the ink is black directly out of the pen, now it’s a faint blue Anti-Tampering features of the check; activated, the spots become more prominent with water exposure, but not much change with 409 Test #4; Lysol Household cleaner with Bleach applied to the Xylene/water/409’ed check; Noodlers; unaffected Uni-Ball Signo; unaffected Bic Gel; Completely gone! like it wasn’t even there… Paper-Mate Ball-point; completely gone, no evidence of any lettering Fisher Bullet; blobbing is gone, but the ink has faded a good 90%, faint, grayish-black but still readable Zebra 701; Completely gone! Anti-Tampering features of the check; activated, hitting the check with Bleach _REALLY_ activated the anti-tampering features, the check now has an ugly brown cast on it Final thoughts; It kind of scares me at how easy it was to remove the ball-point ink, and considering a large percentage of checks and such are written with the mundane, classic ball-point pen, it’s a little unnerving to see the ink removed with so little effort, ball-points in general are less secure than pigment-based pens like the Uni-Ball Signo or Permanent fountain pen inks, pigment based inks actually soak into the paper fibers, bonding with the paper and staining the cellulose fibers, ball-point ink sits on top of the paper and if it bonds at all with the paper, it’s barely with the top of the paper, bleach strips off ball-point ink terrifyingly effectively, it…just…dissolves the solution is obvious, if you want the most secure ink for writing checks or signing legal documents, you need to use a pigment based roller-ball (like the Signo) or a fountain pen with Permanent ink, something that sinks into the paper fibers and bonds with them Pen/ink ratings; Noodler’s “Bulletproof” inks; Honesty in advertising, this ink withstands every attempt to remove it, the only effective means of removing Noodler’s will damage the paper beyond the point of usability, this ink _IS_ permanent and eternal Uni-Ball Signo 207; a great sleeper of a pen, in terms of value for the money, this pen tops the Noodler’s inks, the pen is affordable (about $2 per pen) and uses refills, although for $2/pen it’s almost cheaper to toss them when they’re empty, the Noodler’s inks are more expensive by an order of magnitude (approx. $11-13 a bottle for 1 to 4.5 ounces of ink) _AND_ it requires the use of a fountain or dip pen (fountain pens go for anywhere from $7 to the thousands, depending on manufacturer/features) Bic Gel; smooth writing, but ultimately not secure Paper-Mate; horrible performance and easily removed ink Fisher Bullet; decent performance, the best ball-point of the group, even though the ink does run and feather when exposed to solvents, it doesn’t become unreadable or fade completely away Zebra 701; surprisingly good performance for a non-pressurized mundane ball-point pen, easily outperforms the Paper-Mate, but not the Fisher Bullet Basically, if you want a durable ink in your fountain pen, the only real choice is Noodler’s, if you just want a good, basic, secure pen and don’t want to spend a lot, get the Uni-Ball Signo 207, it passed the same brutal chemical assaults that the Noodler’s did Ballpoints? completely unsecure… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-dopers-fans-of-the-fountain-pen/432084.md?page=3)