It applies to the police themselves as well. Tolerating, even celebrating, minor acts of violence or discrimination, or even a civilians-are-enemy attitude, by police allows their culture to tolerate increasing levels of it, until it leads to homicide and rioting by police. The blue line, protecting their own at the cost of fulfilling their roles, has always been a problem, but it’s become sharper since post-9/11 militarization of police culture.
I agree with this 100%, but probably every jurisdiction has archaic laws on the books that are not being enforced. Remember how late sodomy laws were on the books in some states in the US, only overturned by the supreme court case Lawrence vs. Texas.
Sometimes it is politically impossible to get bad laws taken off the books, in that case I would prefer the police not enforce them.
We’ve seen the recent relaxation of pot laws but in the case of Garner it was a fairly recent (and very large) increase in the cigarette tax that created the situation. How does one vote out a tax? The State of NY and the city of NYC have both gone on a health bender in the last few years without any input from voters. How do you vote a 32 oz cola back into existence or the removal of a cig tax?
The law was recently passed, and NYC obviously wants it enforced. Which makes sense, governments tend to be disproportionate already when you mess with their revenue. I just don’t see how a cigarette black market poses a threat to public safety. The police attitude should be to let the revenue authorities attempt to enforce the law. Local police don’t do the IRS’s job for them, local police shouldn’t be the tools of revenue authorities at all.
I’m not sure who that would be but if I understand it correctly the police were responding to calls from local businesses that someone was bootlegging.
So how would this law then be enforced? The IRS has armed enforcement agents. Do local NY revenue authorities have any means to enforce revenue based laws without using NYPD?
[QUOTE=Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor]
The problem is, that the accelerated levels of cop violence, sometimes deadly violence, for utterly minor offenses, seems to be on a steep rise.
[/QUOTE]
Is this a real assertion, or JMO? I expect it is more a matter of selective perception and media attention.
Regards,
Shodan
While ‘that the accelerated levels of cop violence, sometimes deadly violence, for utterly minor offenses, seems to be on a steep rise’ may seem to be true, do you have any factual evidence for this?
Slee
Ninja’ed by Shodan
False dichotomy. You can have laws and enforce them without arresting individuals. You can ticket them or give them summons.
And no, there is no evidence that “broken window” policing worked better than community policing which would have resulted in less of a divide between police and the general public.
Did I say anything about arresting anyone? I asked if the NY revenue authorities have any means of enforcing laws on their own without going through NYPD. Do you actually have an answer to the question I asked?
Do they send police to collect property taxes or sales taxes? They have enforcement agents, they just don’t have people with guns. Which is fine, tax laws shouldn’t be enforced at gunpoint or the business end of a taser.
A man selling loosies poses no threat to public safety and a negligible threat to the city’s revenue. There was no reason for this law to exist.
Who are you going to give it to if the person doesn’t want to accept it? At some point, if there is a law on the books that has an associated penalty, there is the potential that through escalation enforcement agents will kill to enforce it. Every single law.
True, which is why laws should not be passed without understanding their seriousness. Every time a law is passed, someone’s life is ruined, often many, many someones. It’s a little like war, and in the case of the drug war, it’s a lot like war. It should not be undertaken lightly.
Yep. I submit for evidence New York City during the Dinkins misadministration and how much it changed for the better after Giulianni carried out the policy. Night and day. The city had turned into a shithole. Rudy improved it more than people imagined was even possible.
For those too young to remember the shithole, hang around. DiBlasio, a member of the Dinkins administration, is off to a grand start in bringing back those sad days.
So using that logic then the solution becomes more obvious. Change the arresting procedure.
In the case of Garner they had at least 3 officers there. New procedure, 2 officers handcuff themselves to the person resisting arrest to keep him from swinging on them or grab their guns. the 3rd officer duct tapes his feet together. He’s done. One officer reaches behind the guy’s knees with a nightstick while the other grabs it and they lift forward pulling him off stride into a sitting position. Call up a truck with a lift gate and haul him away with a bill for the extra the truck tacked on to the event as part of court costs. All this can be explained calmly to give the person resisting arrest an incentive to go peacefully.
Can I do that part? It sounds easy and safe.
I’m not against researching the procedures taken in other jurisdictions to reduce the incidence of arrestee injury, but the ideas need to be reasonable.
Some people, especially large strong people, are difficult to take into custody if they’re unwilling. The level of force needed goes up to dangerous levels, being too nice puts officer welfare at risk because they have to engage with the person longer.
I agree but I wasn’t suggesting nice but a different manner of leverage. if you handcuff a 200 lb officer to each hand instead of crawling all over him like ants it’s going to easier for all concerned.
Part of the problem is the insistence on cuffing them with their arms behind. Doesn’t work for large people. Hell it’s tough on my shoulders and I’m 190 lbs. Cuff them in front and shackle them to their feet. It’s just not practical to treat every person the same when there is so much variability with body shapes.
Under this theory, how did the first piece of graffiti in any area come to be? Immaculate conception?
somebody painted it. It’s hard to believe but criminals are capable of moving from place to place.
Yes, that’s as good a description as any.