# Any evidence that flight 93 was shot down? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 14, 2001, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-that-flight-93-was-shot-down/81641 "2001-09-14T17:49:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lao\_Tzu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Lao\_Tzu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lao_Tzu)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-that-flight-93-was-shot-down/81641/21 "2001-11-30T10:29:35Z")
I’m a little confused here. According to [this account in a Sept. 13 New Hampshire newspaper](http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/main.asp?Search=1&ArticleID=40198&SectionID=25&SubSectionID=354&S=1), an FAA employee said an F-16 fighter was following Flight 93: > [@](#): > > FAA air traffic controllers in Nashua have learned through discussions with other controllers that an F-16 fighter stayed in hot pursuit of another hijacked commercial airliner until it crashed in Pennsylvania, said the employee, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. > > By 10:30 a.m. on Tuesday, the military had taken control of U.S. airspace, the employee said. The jet crashed into a field at 10:37 a.m. > > The incidents fell in line with a handful of incredible and unprecedented events that unfolded in America on Tuesday, said the employee, who worked in the control center that fateful morning. The center is one of 20 FAA facilities that monitor long-distance flights once they leave airports. > > “He must’ve seen the whole thing,” the employee said of the F-16 pilot’s view of Flight 93’s crash. The same news was repeated in an AP story that same day: [http://www.portland.com/news/attack/010913faa.shtml](http://www.portland.com/news/attack/010913faa.shtml) Was there an F-16 following Flight 93, or wasn’t there? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-that-flight-93-was-shot-down/81641/22 "2001-11-30T11:05:15Z")
Military jets were, indeed, sent to intercept and, if necessary, shoot down Flight 93. They were not able to reach the airplane before the crash. I have to wonder about the details of the account you mentioned, though - it was actually _two_ jets sent after the airliner, not just one. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-that-flight-93-was-shot-down/81641/23 "2001-11-30T15:32:33Z")
According to my brother-in-law, Flight 93 wasn’t shot down OR crashed because of a hostage revolt - he claims Flight 93 was crashed into it’s target successfully. The target being the field in PA. Apparently, the military had a major communications bunker hidden underground - top secret of course. The hijackers were determined to wipe it out, so it was one of their four primary targets (the others being the twin towers and the Pentagon or White House). Naturally, I rolled my eyes when he told me this, but I’ve wondered where he got this “information” from. Has anyone else heard anyone spouting that Flight 93 hit it’s target and wiped out a major part of the communications network? I can’t see why the goverment would cover up Flight 93 being shot down. I think all the world realises that they would have had little choice, and if it came to it they would be making the hard decision to save other lives. Awful, to make the military fire upon it’s own citizens, but better than having them used as weapons against other citizens. ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-that-flight-93-was-shot-down/81641/24 "2001-11-30T16:31:46Z")
> [@](#): > > According to my brother-in-law, Flight 93 wasn’t shot down OR crashed because of a hostage revolt - he claims Flight 93 was crashed into it’s target successfully. The target being the field in PA. > > Apparently, the military had a major communications bunker hidden underground - top secret of course. The hijackers were determined to wipe it out, so it was one of their four primary targets (the others being the twin towers and the Pentagon or White House). Hmmmm. These guys were wanting to hit very visible, very symbolic targets that might also have a detrimental effect on the American economy and political structure. A field – even a “major communications bunker” – doesn’t qualify. Even if it did, crashing a passenger plane on top of a bunker hidden underground isn’t likely to do any damage to the bunker. Sounds like maybe your brother-in-law has been listening more to the voices in his head than to the voice of reason. RR ---
**Author:** ![Bean\_Counter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/db5fbb/32.png) [@Bean\_Counter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bean_Counter)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2001, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-that-flight-93-was-shot-down/81641/25 "2001-11-30T16:57:42Z")
This week’s Newsweek has an article with excerpts from the cockpit voice recorder in addition to transmissions from the airplane heard by ground controllers. Their reconstruction of the available information was that the airplane was flown into the ground. It even raised the question as to whether there was some struggle between the terrorists as whether to crash or not. Dateline NBC had an interview earlier this month with the two F-16 pilots that were tasked with intercepting the airliner. The fighters were on station over D.C. when the call came to intercept the airliner. They said they did not get there before the crash. They were quite thankful for the heroism of the passengers. Otherwise they would have faced the possibility of firing on U.S. citizens. Of course, facts will not persuade someone dedicated to the “religion of conspiracy”. ---
**Author:** ![Lao\_Tzu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Lao\_Tzu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lao_Tzu)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-that-flight-93-was-shot-down/81641/26 "2001-12-01T01:07:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > Military jets were, indeed, sent to intercept and, if necessary, shoot down Flight 93. They were not able to reach the airplane before the crash. That disagrees with this USA Today story, Oct. 2, > [@](#): > > Although controllers don’t have complete details of the Air Force’s chase of the Boeing 757, they have learned the F-16 made 360-degree turns to remain close to the commercial jet, the employee said. [http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/13/investigate-collide.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/13/investigate-collide.htm) By my calculations, an F-16 leaving from Langley AFB could have reached Flight 93 in about 11 minutes. Can you post a link showing what time the 2 fighters you mention took off, and from what base? I couldn’t find this information. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-that-flight-93-was-shot-down/81641/27 "2001-12-01T01:36:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lao Tzu \* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Broomstick \* > > Military jets were, indeed, sent to intercept and, if necessary, shoot down Flight 93. They were not able to reach the airplane before the crash. > > That disagrees with this USA Today story, Oct. 2, OK… just so you know - when it comes to aviation, _USA Today_ is about as reliable as _The National Enquirer_. Possibly less so. I mean, the _Enquirer_ got more details correct in their JFK, Jr. crash reporting. For example: > [@](#): > > Although controllers don’t have complete details of the Air Force’s chase of the Boeing 757, they have learned the F-16 made 360-degree turns to remain close to the commercial jet, the employee said. #1 - who was this “employee”? Is he (or she) an air traffic controller? A pilot? The janitor? #2 - there is no reason on God’s green earth (or above it, for that matter) for an F-16 to perform “360 degree turns to remain close to the commercial jet”. Commercial jets and F-16’s easily match speeds. An F-16 would cruise alongside such a jet, at the same speed, with no problems whatsoever. Even when intercepting a small, slow plane turning full circles is extremely unlikely. If the top speed of the small plane is below the minimum stall speed of the F-16 (and those are pretty rare conditions) the F-16 would most likely perform “S-turns” off the right wing of the interceptee, a common technique for maintaining spacing between airplanes of very different speeds. _Or so I have been informed by the FAA_, whose information I hold more reliable than _USA Today_, particularly since I do fly very slow aircraft, may have to actually deal with an F-16 off my wing, and I most certainly might be shot down if I fail to comply with their directives. In other words, what is stated in this quote makes no sense to someone who actually flies in/over North America. > [@](#): > > By my calculations, an F-16 leaving from Langley AFB could have reached Flight 93 in about 11 minutes. Can you post a link showing what time the 2 fighters you mention took off, and from what base? I couldn’t find this information. Maybe you should look elsewhere than the general media? Do a google search for aviation press and organizations. There’s probably even a preliminary statement on the official FAA site ([www.FAA.gov](http://www.FAA.gov), in case you were wondering) It’s not just the quantity of links that matters but the _quality_. If the _Journal of the American Medical Association_ and CNN report divergent views on the same medical topic which source of information are you more likely to believe? 11 minutes can be a long time during an in-flight emergency - it’s quite possible that, given the uncertainties and delays of September 11, that the F-16’s weren’t scrambled for Flight 93 until shortly before the crash. The hijackers weren’t stupid - by turning off the transponders as they did the situation initially looked like an equipment failure, not a hijacking, and (at least up to Sept 11) you don’t send the military to take care of equipment failures. With the WTC crashes the system attention was focused on NYC. It wasn’t until _after_ the Pentagon was hit that anything was scrambled to protect DC, and Flight 93 happened very shortly after that. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-that-flight-93-was-shot-down/81641/28 "2001-12-01T01:41:16Z")
> [@](#): > > Sounds like maybe your brother-in-law has been listening more to the voices in his head than to the voice of reason. I didn’t realise you knew him. 🙂 It was obvious that he was wrong, but I wondered if this was a widespread conspiracy theory that I’ve somehow missed on the net. He told me this on the day of the attacks, so we were still sitting there wondering “What next?”. A communications bunker may have made sense if many more attacks were planned for the following days, as a means of hampering military communication. However, I don’t believe there ever was such a bunker. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2001, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-that-flight-93-was-shot-down/81641/29 "2001-12-01T04:02:49Z")
For Cazzle’s BIL: Actual underground communications bunkers. [http://www.thebunker.net/press-hayworks-0801.htm](http://www.thebunker.net/press-hayworks-0801.htm) > [@](#): > > Formerly RAF Ash, this underground fortress was designed to shelter central RAF communications systems in the event of an extreme hostile assault. > > \ > > Designed to withstand everything from electronic snooping to a direct nuclear strike, The Bunker’s specifications are certainly impressive… The Grand Tour of FEMA’s Cold War era “Building 710” at the Denver Federal Center, still in use and now on the Historic Register. [http://www.fema.gov/reg-viii/historic2.htm](http://www.fema.gov/reg-viii/historic2.htm) The Nassau County (NY) Emergency Operations Center. [http://www.ftldesign.com/cgaux1311/wtcceoc.htm](http://www.ftldesign.com/cgaux1311/wtcceoc.htm) > [@](#): > > The location that I was assigned to report to was unfamiliar, located right in the middle of our county, quite a distance in either direction to the water. Surely they would then send me to either NYC, 20 miles to the west, or one of our Long Island Coast Guard Stations for assignment. Instead I found myself 35 feet underground, helping to staff a communications bunker in the County Emergency Operations Center. Even the relatively small Nassau County Center looks like something that wouldn’t be much affected by having a 747 crash into it. I can’t imagine the Feds building a secret underground communications bunker that wouldn’t even be up to Nassau County’s specs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-that-flight-93-was-shot-down/81641.md?page=1)