Any evidence that map skills are gender related?

Factual Questions
21

I’ve noticed over the years that if a man draws you a map to get somewhere, there’s about a 95% probability that North will be at the top. On the other hand, if a woman draws a map, there’s a 25% chance that North will be the major direction closest to the top.

I asked a woman once why she didn’t draw the map with North at the top, and she told me that “I draw it like you’re going.” I couldn’t understand what was the meaning of these words, until we went into this subject in more depth later. It turned out that she draws a map so that where you’re coming from is at the bottom and where you’re going to is at the top. I think this is very common in women’s maps.

This came up because she drew a map from my friend’s house to hers, which is South of his. My friend and I got in the car, pulled out the map, and stared at it for about 15 seconds of puzzlement. Then my friend rotated the page 180 degrees, and it was like both our brains found their secret decoder rings suddenly - “Ahhhhh…” She had drawn her house at the top of the page, and his at the bottom.

I recall once driving with my wife looking at the map. I had pointed out to her before we left where it was on the map that we were going. She knew what street we were on. I said "OK - Gaston street is coming up next, and I recall that we turn on it. Which way should I turn? After several seconds, she sheepishly said “I don’t know.” This kind of thing has happened several times. She can’t look at a map and figure out whether to turn left or right.

22

I would have thought so too…we have several rodeos here every year, so I’ve had occasion to watch people and their practices.

While I’m not saying there was never a woman born able to back up a trailer, the ability seems to escape most, even those who have lots of opportunity to practice.

That said, If I were a horse I’d a whole lot rather be trailered by a woman at the wheel than most men. Be a lot fewer bloody noses from some jack-ass slamming on the brakes because he was tailgating the car ahead.

23

I’ve found that if you offer directions to a woman using street names, they’ll have a difficult time finding the way to their final destination. The “depending on landmarks” navigation system of women seems to extend to limited access highways – most women I know won’t acknowledge directional signs with street names and route numbers, even the in-your-face kind on Interstate highways. You don’t say “Get off at the Main Street exit, and then head west until you hit Route 43,” but can easuly digest ", but do know that you should “exit after you cross the bridge over the big river, and turn left at the Mobil at the end of the ramp, and then go straight until you see the Wal-Mart on your right.”

Thing is, men can function under both systems. It’s just more efficient to use mileage, route names and street numbers rather than landmarks that may now be gone or renamed.

Most women I know who work in professions where map reading is a must, i.e. urban planning, seem to do okay.

24

Anne Moir and David Jessel, in their book ‘Brainsex’, certainly seem to think this is a genuine difference, but I don’t know how well they back up their case.

I guess the consensus gradually emerging here is that even IF there are any gender-related characteristics vis map-reading, there are so many exceptions (and potential exceptions) it’s not much of a clue about anyone or anything.

I’m a man, and my map-reading skills are appalling. I’m one of those to whom maps seem intentionally designed to be inscrutable. If I use any navigational method at all, it’s ‘landmarks and left/right/forward/backward’. Both of these might typically be thought ‘female’ traits.

On the other hand, I am virtually never late for anything, nor do I ever get lost. Some men might dare to suggest ‘punctuality’ is not a famous female trait.

So, maybe I’m “in touch” with my female side in some ways, but not others. Fine by me. I like women, and I reckon I (and many men) could learn a lot from them.

Some girlfriends I’ve had were Nobel prize-winning map readers, and had navigational skills up the wazoo and back. Nothing remotely unfeminine about any of them. Others couldn’t read a map any sooner than juggle soot. Just like me.

As for Karen Smith… best laugh I’ve had this visit to the boards.

25

Of course, in a world where nature produces such oddities as bearded ladies and men with tits, not to mention people of indeterminate gender, it is extremely foolish to shoehorn anyone into a “gender role”. Human abilities range over a spectrum, and there are exceptions to every rule.

I’ve been thinking about this topic for days, now. If your testing for “gender navigation skills” you not only have to design your test carefully, but also be careful about the group your choosing.

For instance, if you’re testing the ability of people to visulize three-dimensionally, on average in the general population men score higher than women. But if you pick someone such as myself it’s going to skew your results. You don’t become a pilot without mastering spatial relationships to a certain level, and the average female pilot is going to score way higher than the average general population male because it’s a requirement to join the group. I don’t know if anyone has compared male and female pilots in this area, it would be interesting to see if there is still a “gender gap” or if the differences even out. There are activities where those with excellent spatial skills will gather, while those - both female and male - who lack those skills will not be found in the group.

Also, this splitting things into “skills” isn’t always a reflection of the real world, either. There’s more to flying, engineering, art or sports (all spatial-intensive activities) than just the ability to handle spatial relationships. Someone with “just” average spatial abilities may wind up being the better pilot/engineer/artist/athlete if they have strength in other skills important to the task at hand, compared to someone who is excellent at spatial tasks but a complete nincompoop in other areas.

And if a person scores high in an area usually considered a trait of the opposite gender - so what? I’ve run across some very feminine (appearance and mannerisms) corporate executives who nonetheless are extremely ambitious and aggressive - normally considered “male” traits but there was no doubt these women were women. So what?

I guess I’m nuts, but I’ve always felt one should be judged on what one can actually do and actually does, and not by some rule that because you’re in X group you can do Y but not Z.

26

Muffin you are a very naughty paddler! And a very smart one too.

I admit it, I was completely fooled by Karen. I thought she made some really good points, a little over the top, perhaps, but I had to to admire the compelling arguments she was marshalling.

I was hurt for her that nobody seemed to be acknowledging what she said except in quite dismissive terms, and I was composing a supportive post, while continuing down the thread, and then you dropped your comment.

I suppose this means I’m a wuss and a drip.

Well I am.

But at least I don’t stop the car and ask for help when I can’t read the map! I just drive on and on for hours, getting more and more confused.
Redlost

27

I was going to post that none of the above explains why I can navigate my way around most kinds of wilderness but I’m always shown the way around a Mall. But then I re-read this:

Yep, that would be about right.

28

Now I’m not getting into the broad argument as to who is better at map reading but I am SOOOOO happy that my wife is getting trained in map reading for her job.
:slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

29

My mom drew a map for me today. It has both landmarks and an arrow showing wich way north is.

30

Broomstick wrote:

Ah, but men seem to keep a general sense of North, South, East and West in the back of their heads at all times. An internalized map, of sorts.

Try this experiment:

Walk up to 10 random men in a setting where there are no landmarks (say, inside an office or a bar), and ask them to point North. Most will pass the test with ease. Now try the same thing with ten random women. The results will be… different.

I tried this after reading an article about why men don’t ask for directions. The article went into a discussion of the preference of men for directional navigation (“the restaurant is over that way, I don’t need to ask for directions”) versus the preference of women for landmark navigation (“turn right at the light, go three blocks, then turn left at the Safeway”). There was a discussion of the possible evolutionary basis for this. (After a far-roving hunt, men would need to find their way back to their village.)

I don’t know about the caveman theories, but the gender difference does seem real.

31

Muffin/Karen- I thought your post was absolutely hilarious. When everyone else took it seriously (or dismissed it), I began to think maybe I was perceiving a joke where none was intended. Glad to find out otherwise. Navicular Gynoceium indeed!

Chronos- Yer talkin’ 'bout my town there! I give people directions based on the M too, only usually along the lines of “Follow this street straight toward the M until you come to that crazy intersection, then bear left onto South Avenue until you pass by the Fairgrounds…” :smiley:

32

Redboss, just because she’s ficticious doesn’t necessarily mean that her arguments are invalid…

Are we men dreaming that we are butterflies, or butterflies dreaming that we are men?

33

Yes, but have you actually read the arguments? It’s composed entirely of touchy-feely mumbo-jumbo :slight_smile:
The scientific studies that have been conducted so far show pretty conclusively that there is a gender difference in the way spatial information is processed and interpreted in the brain. As far as I can tell, they make no mention of whether there are physically observable behavioral differences. Anything we’ve seen in our daily lives is anecdotal and likely just the result of our social conditioning and expectations. It’s also quite clear that any normal human being can train him- or herself to perform the complex analyses required to understand a spatial projection. Practiced behaviors lay down new pathways in the brain that become strengthened with repetition. It’s true for any activity. Whatever differences exist are no impediment to an individual with the motivation to become proficient. IMHO, that’s true of any activity … except perhaps childbirth :slight_smile:

34

Growing up in a rural area where only the major roads were marked, I learned to give directions using both landmarks and distance.

I grew up in Alvarado, Texas. There are only two major roads there, I-35W and US67. A couple of the state Farm-to-Market roads (like FM 2738) are marked, but none of the county roads when I was a kid. (They’ve finally gotten around to marking the county roads because of the large number of people moving in recently.)

If I had to give directions to my house, I’d tell them to go north of the High School about three-tenths of a mile and take the first paved road on the right. Go about two miles and you’ll cross a one-lane wooden bridge over a creek. Turn left soon after you cross the bridge. Go about three-tenths of a mile and our house is the first one on the left, right where the road makes a sharp right turn.

Even today, here in Los Angeles, I give directions like that. “Go that way (I’m pointing) three blocks and turn left on Broadway at the Bank of America. Go six blocks and turn left at the AM/PM Mini Market. It’s on the left, a big white building. You can’t miss it.”

When I ride a bus to some destination I’ve never seen before, I always take a bus schedule and look at the street signs and mentally check them off the map on the schedule. “Oh, good, the next street ought to be Fairfax…”

35

I am very good at doing this, as long as I am in a city where the streets point more-or-less in the cardinal directions, or if I’m paying attention to where the sun is.

But when my family moved to Kano (Nigeria) when I was 11, I became . . . not lost, but disoriented. Kano is 12 degrees from the Equator, so when it’s near noon, the sun is pretty much overhead for much of the year, a bit to the north in the summer or south in winter, so that wasn’t much help. We lived out to the west of the city, and when we drove downtown and got to the main roundabout, I was positive we entered it from the west.

Until one day I saw a map of Kano, and found out that the road we drove in on has a gradual curve, and we enter the roundabout from the south. My entire perception of Kano city was off by 90 degrees.

We only lived there for 2 years. I never did get my directions straight. But trust me, it has nothing to do with magnetic fields. Blindfold a man or woman, take them somewhere they’ve never been on an overcast day (or at night), spin them around a few times for good measure, take off the blindfold and their chances of finding north are pure chance.

–
MrDeath (half a mile southeast of Rusholme and P)

36

Regarding the OP, my own experience indicates that whatever brain wiring is used to solve “what does this pile of bricks look like from the back”-style problems is different from that used to navigate. I, for example, seem to be well endowed with the former, while I am notoriously (amongst friends and family) lacking the latter.

Though I am better then most at rotating three (or more) dimensional objects in my head, and at abstract geometrical reasoning, I am actually quite bad at finding my way to some place I have never been. This despite the fact that those in my family are generally good navigators. Unless I am consciously keeping track of my turns, I easily lose my sense of where North is. If I am a passenger in a car going somewhere I have never been, then, unless I am making a special effort to remember where and how we turned (by which I mean, what it looked like were we turned, and whether we turned right or left), I would usually be helpless if I had to find my way back from our destination.

I can follow directions, but those directions I find easiest to follow are of the form “go down road X past two intersections and then turn right on road Y. Then turn left at the second stop light onto road Z. Your destination is the third house on the right, with address abcd.” Such directions rely little on spatial relations (no mention of NSEW or of distances) and read more like a linear sequence of actions: “Perform action A (turning right, say), then do nothing (which in a car means just following the road) until you see object W (the second stop light, say), and then perform action B.”

I find it interesting that this landmark style of navigation is generally characterized as feminine, since, interpreted in the manner I describe above, it is a very linear form of thinking. This linear style of thinking characterizes my own thought (not just in navigation, and probably to a fault), and I was always given to understand that this was viewed by most as a masculine trait.

37

I use some NSEW directions but in general I give very detailed landmark directions. However, it is usually easier for me to think in NSEW than to figure out which way “turn right” will be at a given point.

Here’s how you get to my house: you take the Ville-Marie expressway - that’s the southern one. Not the Trans-Canada. Um, is it the 20? I think so. Anyway. Take that - heading east - until you get to ABC, then keep going and take the very next exit after that. That takes you to ave. W. That exit lets out at the corner of rue X and ave W. Turn, umm, umm, right! onto rue X. Then go several blocks down until you see a big church on your left. That’s rue Y. The next street on your left is rue Z and my house is right after that, across the street from the big school.

38

(Street names cleverly disguised.)

39

Miss Davis, you could say I’m a scientist and a cartographer (by qualification) and I have some experience in psychology but it does not qualify me to make a definitive pronouncement about map reading skills, however as far as I can remember,…

Whether or not a person has a boy brain or a girl brain depends upon the point at which, during gestation, certain hormones are released by the mother. These chemicals bathe the brains of babes and if their release occurs on cue there ensues the typical (‘normal’) result …

Generally, men are better at map reading than women, men are also better at reversing and parking cars. In England there is a standing (sexist) joke about how dreadful women’s driving skills are, but if you look into claims statistics for motor insurance you will find that men are the worst risk. Women have many more accidents than men, mostly minor bumps, mostly down to poor parking skills which is a spatial thing. These spills cost (relatively) little to repair through insurance or not. Men, on the other hand, have less accidents but more often total the car in fine style, because they tend to be less cautious (ie feel confident and in control).

Women tend to ask directions because they tend to go in for sharing their problems generally, and they are more likely to admit that they don’t know; men prefer to be/feel/act in control and so are more reluctant to ask for help.

In my experience, few people of either sex instinctively know where north is, especially if they have been travelling a route which is complicated and unfamiliar, or if just put on the spot.

Yes, most people can learn skills which seem not to come naturally, or at least improve on them with practice but a lot of people seem to be forgetting that men are taller than women! WHAT?

Add up the heights of each man in a random sample and compare with the sum of an equal number of women and what have you got? Height isn’t something you can improve on with practice but it illustrates, without complicated experimentation, that some attributes have a gender based distribution. It’s not sexist, it’s not judgmental, it just is the way the body forms. Perhaps tall women have a better appreciation of such spatial elements than shorter ones!
What about knitting then? Is this a gender based skill?

40

Study shows men are better than women at navigating a VR maze.

I won’t bore you with any more anecdotal evidence. However, knitting is not a gender-based skill, picking out yarn and cute matching buttons is. Cute perception occurs in the right hippocamups, a region notably underutilized by men.