# Any evidence the US was prepared to fake the moon landing HAD IT BEEN NECESSARY? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 29, 2019, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693 "2019-05-29T03:45:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/1 "2019-05-29T03:45:53Z")
Other than The Shining of course, which, while not on the level of Paul is Dead, does offer some fairly convincing clues, for the fairly open minded. We all know the landing did in fact happen, but is there any evidence besides Kubrick’s cinematic confession that the US had taken action to fake it if it had failed? I always see this theory debated as whether it was fake or not, not whether the US was prepared to fake if needed? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/2 "2019-05-29T03:58:02Z")
No. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/3 "2019-05-29T04:06:15Z")
Nope. > **[What If Apollo 11 Failed? President Nixon Had Speech Ready](https://www.space.com/26604-apollo-11-failure-nixon-speech.html)** > > While Apollo 11 astronauts Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin took mankind's first steps on the moon, the White House prepared for the possibility of their failed return. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/4 "2019-05-29T04:10:31Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > We all know the landing did in fact happen, but is there any evidence besides Kubrick’s cinematic confession that the US had taken action to fake it if it had failed? Also no: > **[Did Stanley Kubrick Fake the Moon Landings?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/false-stanley-kubrick-faked-moon-landings/)** > > Various edits of this infamous 'interview' have been circulating for years. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/5 "2019-05-29T04:12:06Z")
Why would they? Even in the pre-Internet days, so many people would have been involved, the news would eventually have gotten out. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/6 "2019-05-29T05:09:34Z")
To be convincing to all the world’s scientists and the russian space agency, you need to basically solve all of the problems, and spend the same amount of money (as illustrated on [Mitchell and Webb](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MOnehCOUw)). If there were some seemingly insurmountable problems, surely just pushing back the date while you keep working on those problems makes much more sense than 1. Just throwing money away 2. Taking a massive risk of humilating america forever and 3. Not learning anything in the process (ok we didn’t learn that much from landing on the moon, but we didn’t know that in advance) ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/7 "2019-05-29T05:18:23Z")
The Nixon article is interesting yet meaningless- it would raise a lot of eyebrows to only have one speech planned for an event that requires a speech either way, and both scenarios were very possible- this we know was no sure thing. The Snopes article, oddly, is a link to a fake admittance of guilt by a fake Kubrick? Not sure what that proves or disproves. Why would they? This was a huge deal at the time, national pride and whatnot. And not that many people had to know about it, and these are not Joe Sixpacks who you have to trust with your secret, these are top men whose every day job is keeping National Security secrets. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/8 "2019-05-29T05:21:20Z")
It makes no sense. The government wouldn’t have started up a real moon landing program unless it believed it was realistically possible. And if the government believed a moon landing was realistically possible, why would they have felt the need to start up a program to fake a moon landing? ---
**Author:** ![Helmut\_Doork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e8c25b/32.png) [@Helmut\_Doork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helmut_Doork)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/9 "2019-05-29T05:42:54Z")
Space Race- not just a video game or a horrible Billy Preston instrumental. Surely you’ve heard of it? And you’re not reading for comprehension, I didn’t say the GOAL was to fake it, the goal was to do it, but was faking a consideration if it failed? ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/10 "2019-05-29T06:27:51Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Why would they? Even in the pre-Internet days, so many people would have been involved, the news would eventually have gotten out. Another _Why would they?_ Any Congressperson would have said “We almost made it, and if only they had listened to me and increased NASAs budget, and used more components made in my state, we would have succeeded. We’ll do it next time. And there will be a next time, because Americans ain’t quitters!” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/11 "2019-05-29T06:30:24Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > Space Race- not just a video game or a horrible Billy Preston instrumental. Surely you’ve heard of it? And you’re not reading for comprehension, I didn’t say the GOAL was to fake it, the goal was to do it, but was faking a consideration if it failed? Again, it wasn’t considered because it just wasn’t possible to keep something like that secret. It would be like saying that the owner of Secretariat had a backup plan to fake winning the Triple Crown in '73 just in case he didn’t win for real. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/12 "2019-05-29T06:43:19Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > Space Race- not just a video game or a horrible Billy Preston instrumental. Surely you’ve heard of it? And you’re not reading for comprehension, I didn’t say the GOAL was to fake it, the goal was to do it, but was faking a consideration if it failed? Like I said, the space race is also the reason that faking it was not a serious option. The Soviet Union had the means to watch every aspect closely (remember they were way ahead in the space race up to that point) and huge motivation to point out a fraud if they saw it. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/13 "2019-05-29T07:42:08Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > Space Race- not just a video game or a horrible Billy Preston instrumental. Surely you’ve heard of it? And you’re not reading for comprehension, I didn’t say the GOAL was to fake it, the goal was to do it, but was faking a consideration if it failed? In addition to what **Mijin** said, that the Soviets were monitoring everything we sent up into space and were eager to jump down our throats had we so much as stretched the truth, we couldn’t even keep the Manhattan Project secret. The Soviet nuclear bomb project was a direct result of people leaking nuclear secrets to the Soviet Union. There’s no way a fake Moonshot wouldn’t have been leaked. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/14 "2019-05-29T11:37:44Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > Why would they? This was a huge deal at the time, national pride and whatnot. And not that many people had to know about it, and these are not Joe Sixpacks who you have to trust with your secret, these are top men whose every day job is keeping National Security secrets. Not that many people had to know about it? Tens of thousands of people would know - all the people involved in the Apollo project would know that THEY didn’t land someone on the moon. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/15 "2019-05-29T11:43:57Z")
How could you even fake putting actual reflectors on the actual lunar surface? What the evidence shows is that the US was prepared to spend tens of billions of dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/16 "2019-05-29T12:14:45Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > … This was a huge deal at the time, national pride and whatnot. And not that many people had to know about it, and these are not Joe Sixpacks who you have to trust with your secret, these are top men whose every day job is keeping National Security secrets. The Top Men never told us what they found out when they examined the Ark of the Covenant, so they seem pretty good at keeping secrets. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/17 "2019-05-29T12:19:27Z")
Plus, the “Top Men” that you’re talking about are scientists. Scientists are the worst people in the world at keeping secrets. Our whole profession is built around getting the truth out. You’d have a much easier time getting ten thousand Joe Sixpacks to keep your secrets. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/18 "2019-05-29T12:23:20Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > Space Race- not just a video game or a horrible Billy Preston instrumental. Surely you’ve heard of it? And you’re not reading for comprehension, I didn’t say the GOAL was to fake it, the goal was to do it, but was faking a consideration if it failed? We had rockets blow up on the launchpad on live TV. Three astronauts were killed in a cabin fire during training. The public knew it was dangerous and that failures happened. Why would they wait until the very end to start faking things? ---
**Author:** ![joema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@joema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joema)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/19 "2019-05-29T12:41:43Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > To be convincing to all the world’s scientists and the russian space agency, you need to basically solve all of the problems, and spend the same amount of money (as illustrated on [Mitchell and Webb](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6MOnehCOUw))… Although humorous, that video contains an important fact: much of the entire Apollo program cost was due to the Saturn launch vehicles, engines, and gigantic engineering, test, manufacturing and support facilities for those. Of the total Apollo program budget of about $145 billion in current dollars, I’ve seen numbers ranging from $40 to $80 billion just for the Saturn V and related infrastructure. In fact that is one reason the Russian N-1 vehicle (their “Saturn V”) failed – they could not afford the massive investment in test facilities. By contrast the US built _two_ Saturn V F-1 engine test stands, one in Huntsville AL and another in Mississippi: [![](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Stennis_Space_Center#/media/File:Static_Test_Firing_of_Saturn_V_S-1C_Stage_-_GPN-2000-000041.jpg) ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Stennis_Space_Center#/media/File:Static_Test_Firing_of_Saturn_V_S-1C_Stage_-_GPN-2000-000041.jpg) The infrastructure also included a dynamic test stand so the entire Saturn Vehicle could be shaken and vibrated on the ground: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/SA-500D\_in\_Dynamic\_Test\_Stand\_Configuration\_I.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/SA-500D_in_Dynamic_Test_Stand_Configuration_I.jpg) The “moon hoax” viewpoint generally questions only going TO the moon, not orbiting the earth. In that case the Apollo _spacecraft_ development and testing would still be required since these were used in earth orbit. The cost of developing and testing the command, service and lunar modules was huge. This included gigantic vacuum chambers which could simulate a space environment on the groud, using the actual spacecraft: [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Apollo\_Command\_Service\_Module\_in\_vacuum\_chamber.jpg/1200px-Apollo\_Command\_Service\_Module\_in\_vacuum\_chamber.jpg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/df/Apollo_Command_Service_Module_in_vacuum_chamber.jpg/1200px-Apollo_Command_Service_Module_in_vacuum_chamber.jpg) It would be interesting to take someone who questions the Apollo moon landing, put them on the 1st row of an IMAX theater showing the new Apollo 11 documentary, and see what they think afterward. It is a staggering visual and aural experience, esp. the Saturn V launch which used never-before-seen 70mm film. It makes the CGI effects in the “Apollo 13” movie look like a toy. 2019 Apollo 11 documentary: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Co8Z8BQgWc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Co8Z8BQgWc) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2019, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693/20 "2019-05-29T12:47:15Z")
> [@Helmut\_Doork](#): > > The Snopes article, oddly, is a link to a fake admittance of guilt by a fake Kubrick? Not sure what that proves or disproves. That someone looking to score publicity and money drummed up a phony controversy that credulous idjits still believe? I have to admit that a near-deathbed “confession” by faux-Kubrick really heightens credibility, like deathbed “confessions” by various other famous people. My favorite is the one where Louis Pasteur supposedly admitted he was wrong about germ theory and his rival Bechamp (The Terrain Is Everything, Germs Are Nothing) was right. That this never happened does not deter Bechamp fans (who remain doggedly resistant to modern medicine but alas, not to microscopic pathogens). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-evidence-the-us-was-prepared-to-fake-the-moon-landing-had-it-been-necessary/834693.md?page=2)