# Any famous urban legends of WWII? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 13, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640 "2012-09-13T23:09:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/61 "2012-09-14T21:34:59Z")
> [@ITR\_champion](#): > > During the Battle of the Bulge, an American officer responds to a German demand for surrender by saying “nuts”. Alternately, by saying a word that’s more common in soldier vocabulary that family-friendly history books just can’t print. True. And it was just the word “nuts”, not any type of swear word. The guy who said it was General Anthony McAuliffe. Vincent Vicari, McAuliffe’s personal aide at the time, recalled that “General Mac was the only general I ever knew who did not use profane language. ‘Nuts’ was part of his normal vocabulary.” The Germans sent a surrender party bearing a white flag and this message: > [@](#): > > To the U.S.A. Commander of the encircled town of Bastogne. > > The fortune of war is changing. This time the U.S.A. forces in and near Bastogne have been encircled by strong German armored units. More German armored units have crossed the river Our near Ortheuville, have taken Marche and reached St. Hubert by passing through Hompre-Sibret-Tillet. Libramont is in German hands. > > There is only one possibility to save the encircled U.S.A. troops from total annihilation: that is the honorable surrender of the encircled town. In order to think it over a term of two hours will be granted beginning with the presentation of this note. > > If this proposal should be rejected one German Artillery Corps and six heavy A. A. Battalions are ready to annihilate the U.S.A. troops in and near Bastogne. The order for firing will be given immediately after this two hours’ term. > > All the serious civilian losses caused by this artillery fire would not correspond with the well known American humanity. > > The German Commander. General Anthony McAuliffe laughed and said: “Us surrender? Aw, nuts!” But then McAuliffe realized that some sort of reply was in order. He pondered for a few minutes and then told the staff, “Well I don’t know what to tell them.” He then asked the staff what they thought, and Lt. General Harry W. O. Kinnard spoke up, saying, “That first remark of yours would be hard to beat.” McAuliffe said, “What do you mean?” Kinnard answered, “Sir, you said ‘Nuts’.” All members of the staff enthusiastically agreed, and McAuliffe decided to send that one word, “Nuts!” back to the Germans. > [@](#): > > To the German Commander, > > NUTS! > > The American Commander. According to Lt. General Harry W. O. Kinnard: > [@](#): > > At this time the Germans were acting in an arrogant and patronizing manner and Harper, who was starting to lose his temper, responded, “The reply is decidedly not affirmative.” He then added that, “If you continue your foolish attack your losses will be tremendous.” > > Harper then put the German officers in a jeep and took them back to where the German enlisted men were detained. He then said to the German captain, “If you don’t know what ‘Nuts’ means, in plain English it is the same as ‘Go to Hell’. And I’ll tell you something else, if you continue to attack we will kill every goddam German that tries to break into this city.” > > The German major and captain saluted very stiffly. The captain said, “We will kill many Americans. This is war.” Harper then responded, “On your way Bud,” he then said, “and good luck to you.” Harper later told me he always regretted wishing them good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2012, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/62 "2012-09-14T21:41:33Z")
Legend: The M1 Garand rifle had a fatal flaw. It ejects it’s en-bloc clip after the last round. German sodiers would wait for the sound and then attack the helpless GI. Truth: There is no reliably documented case of this ever happening. It takes a couple of seconds to load a fresh clip, leaving precious little time for the enemy to capitalize on the empty rifle. Any Germans close enough to hear the not all that loud sound of the clip being ejected, would probably be deaf from the sound of the preceding shots, and if engaged against multiple riflemen it would be difficult if not impossible to tell which rifle had just emptied. It would have been trivial to fake the clip ejection and thus draw the enemy out if they had been relying on this. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/63 "2012-09-15T00:13:54Z")
[Glenn Miller dying in a Paris brothel](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1905/did-band-leader-glenn-miller-die-in-a-french-brothel) ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/64 "2012-09-15T07:21:19Z")
> [@yendis](#): > > Is this is an urban legend? > > There are pics of Anti Tank dogs, [stuffed in a musuem](http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=90009&view=next), [in training](http://www.soviet-empire.com/1/military/anti-tank/dog_mine/anti-tank_dog_mine_001_629x383.php), and many references made to their existence by both Russian and German sources. Even Guderian mentions them in his account of the war. > > They were ineffectual and their use was discontinued almost immediately but I have never come across any doubt about the existence of AT dogs. I can’t find the reference in the book that I thought it was in, so I’ll retract the statement unless I can find something. Cheers ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/65 "2012-09-15T07:43:08Z")
What was the alleged act of treachery the Bloody 100th were allegedly targeted for? ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/66 "2012-09-15T13:45:34Z")
During the desert war in North Africa, both the British and Axis accused each other of putting oil into the wells prior to a retreat. Turns out the most likley explanation is that oil reserves were leaking into underground water aquifers - periods of non-use of water during times when such places were in the front line would allow oil to accumulate. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/67 "2012-09-15T14:22:36Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > What was the alleged act of treachery the Bloody 100th were allegedly targeted for? [Here:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100th_Air_Refueling_Wing#World_War_II) > [@](#): > > On 25 June 1943, the 100 BG flew its first Eighth Air Force combat mission in a bombing of the Bremen U-boat yards – the beginning of the “Bloody Hundredth”'s legacy. The group inherited the “Bloody Hundredth” nickname from other bomb groups due to the amount of losses it took. In the early summer of 1943, 100 BG became a “marked outfit” by Luftwaffe fighters after a B-17 pilot first lowered his landing gear to surrender to three Messerschmitt Bf 109s, started to descend after the fighters stopped shooting, then changed his mind and the B-17 gunners shot the three fighter aircraft (one Bf 109 pilot bailed out and presumably reported the event).[1]:94 The group experienced several instances where it lost a dozen or more aircraft on a single mission, and for the next six months, the group focused its bombing attacks against German airfields, industries, and naval facilities in France and Germany. One such raid on 10 October 1943, that the 100th BG made on Münster, ended up with the only surviving 100th BG B-17, the Rosie’s Riveters (B-17F 42-30758) commanded by Robert Rosenthal, returning safely to Thorpe Abbots. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/68 "2012-09-15T14:30:42Z")
How large is a Bomber group? Losing a dozen aircraft on one mission would seem unsustainable unless it was quite large. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/69 "2012-09-15T15:25:12Z")
A heavy bomb group had 72 aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Mavis\_Topholese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7feea3/32.png) [@Mavis\_Topholese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mavis_Topholese)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/70 "2012-09-15T15:45:39Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > Legend: The M1 Garand rifle had a fatal flaw. It ejects it’s en-bloc clip after the last round. German sodiers would wait for the sound and then attack the helpless GI. > > Truth: There is no reliably documented case of this ever happening. It takes a couple of seconds to load a fresh clip, leaving precious little time for the enemy to capitalize on the empty rifle. Any Germans close enough to hear the not all that loud sound of the clip being ejected, would probably be deaf from the sound of the preceding shots, and if engaged against multiple riflemen it would be difficult if not impossible to tell which rifle had just emptied. It would have been trivial to fake the clip ejection and thus draw the enemy out if they had been relying on this. Wellll… when I was in high school JROTC our instructor was a Korean War veteran. His take on this situation was that it’s not so much the sound of the clip springing out of the rifle, but the noise of the clip hitting rocks on the ground as it falls. He described it as a “clang”, and said the North Koreans waited for it as a signal to attack. From my limited experience with the M1, there’s a greater danger of catching fingers or thumb in the breech when loading a new clip. That thing snaps like a turtle. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/71 "2012-09-15T16:21:48Z")
> [@Mavis\_Topholese](#): > > From my limited experience with the M1, there’s a greater danger of catching fingers or thumb in the breech when loading a new clip. That thing snaps like a turtle. A _greater_ danger? Yeah. But “M1 thumb” is a rookie mistake. Get quick or use your left pinkie. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/72 "2012-09-15T16:40:22Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > A heavy bomb group had 72 aircraft. Thanks Silenus. I do wonder now about the accuracy of coming back several times losing 12 aircraft (what’s that - about 100 trained men?) I have just read a book about the RAF bombing in 1943 and it indicated a loss of around 5% was the upper limit. After that, the bombing would quickly become not an option. (Of course, there was far more than the lost aircraft- many aircraft coming back would be unserviceable, aircrew wounded and stuff like that). Those guys were incredibly brave. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/73 "2012-09-15T18:24:33Z")
A B-17 normally had a crew of 10. So did a B-24. The evidence for the Luftwaffe actually targeting the 100th is skimpy enough to make it a UL, despite the flat assertion in the Wiki article. Its loss rate may simply have been a combination of tough targets, inexperience due to the loss rate (which would have been a self-perpetuating problem), low morale from belief in being targeted among other things (also self-perpetuating), and simple bad luck. As to the impostor story, whether German crews of captured B-17’s actually shot down formations or not, they \*could \*have (and one episode of “Twelve O’Clock High” showed that 🙂 ). That was enough for the USAAF to order the shootdown of any apparent straggler asking to join a formation, no matter how sure of their identify. That must have meant the loss of some planes anyway. Bomber crews’ braveness may have been mostly helplessness - there simply wasn’t much they could do most of the time except know they were being shot at or were about to be, for hours on end, and most intensely over the target while they had to fly straight and level. Quite a few did crack up. It might have been even worse for Lancaster chaps, who had no protection below, even from a single ball turret. Their only way to know if a German night fighter was in the area was to see or feel the bullets coming up through the belly. At least infantrymen could take cover and shoot back. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/74 "2012-09-15T19:51:21Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I saw a documentary about the USS _Nimitz_ almost stopping the Pearl Harbor attack, too! Is that “almost” as in “chickening out and doing nothing at all”? I saw that one too. You’d have thought they could at least have broadcast some Chuck Berry. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/75 "2012-09-15T23:00:41Z")
They didn’t chicken out, the time vortex returned and sucked them back into the present. There is a persistent UL that FDR knew about the attack in advance, but let it happen as a pretext for entering the war. Or is that more of a CT? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/76 "2012-09-15T23:25:59Z")
And here’s another: The UL that Yamamoto said after the attack “I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve.” He didn’t. The “quote” dates only to 1970, and the ending of _Tora! Tora! Tora!_. To what I hope is the surprise of no one, Hollywood made it up. ---
**Author:** ![Damfino](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Damfino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damfino)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2012, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/77 "2012-09-15T23:38:23Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > A B-17 normally had a crew of 10. So did a B-24. > > The evidence for the Luftwaffe actually targeting the 100th is skimpy enough to make it a UL, despite the flat assertion in the Wiki article. Its loss rate may simply have been a combination of tough targets, inexperience due to the loss rate (which would have been a self-perpetuating problem), low morale from belief in being targeted among other things (also self-perpetuating), and simple bad luck. > As to the impostor story, whether German crews of captured B-17’s actually shot down formations or not, they \*could \*have (and one episode of “Twelve O’Clock High” showed that 🙂 ). That was enough for the USAAF to order the shootdown of any apparent straggler asking to join a formation, no matter how sure of their identify. That must have meant the loss of some planes anyway. > > Bomber crews’ braveness may have been mostly helplessness - there simply wasn’t much they could do most of the time except know they were being shot at or were about to be, for hours on end, and most intensely over the target while they had to fly straight and level. Quite a few did crack up. It might have been even worse for Lancaster chaps, who had no protection below, even from a single ball turret. Their only way to know if a German night fighter was in the area was to see or feel the bullets coming up through the belly. At least infantrymen could take cover and shoot back. Lancasters had rear turrets, which provided some protection from rear and below. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/78 "2012-09-16T00:20:59Z")
At the time, I think it was an urban legend that Hitler had one testicle, but it may have [been true](http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1945960.ece). Sung to the tune of Colonel Bogey’s March Hitler had only got one ball Goering had two, but very small Himmler Was very sim’lar And Goebbels had no balls at all… (I think Cecil discusses this in one of his books) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/79 "2012-09-16T00:38:22Z")
Stretching it a bit, there’s a saying that Austria’s greatest accomplishment of the postwar era was to convince the world that Beethoven was Austrian and Hitler was German. IOW, there’s a UL that Austria was an innocent victim of Nazism and that “The Sound of Music” was a documentary, while [the photos suggest otherwise.](http://xroads.virginia.edu/~MA05/havard/Vienna/Vienna33.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2012, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640/80 "2012-09-16T01:45:16Z")
> [@Damfino](#): > > Lancasters had rear turrets, which provided some protection from rear and below. I would disagree here. As I mentioned, I have just finished a book (recommend it to anyone by Kevin Wilson) about the bombing of 1943. Very basically, flak was a terrible problem for the Stirling bombers due to a low ceiling. The Halifaxes had a higher ceiling but not as good as the Lancaster. This had the effect of drawing a lot of the fire and nightfighters away from the higher flying Lancasters. When the Stirlings were withdrawn from the bombing of Germany the losses in Lancasters rose. Anyway, by 1943 the Germans had adopted a pretty effective tactic called “Nacht Musik”. A night fighter (often a Ju 88 or ME110) was fitted with upward firing cannons. They also had a radar and when a bomber was located they flew underneath the bomber, and just fired upwards. The Lancaster crews did not even know they were there until the aircraft started being torn apart. The bombers - even without radar detection- were able to be seen by being silhouetted against high cloud and with glowing exhausts as the engines struggled with a large bomb load. Anyway, end of hijack. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-famous-urban-legends-of-wwii/634640.md?page=5)