# Any former Veep as big a dick as Cheney? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 16, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633 "2009-03-16T16:29:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/21 "2009-03-16T21:15:54Z")
Apparently, dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2009, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/22 "2009-03-16T21:24:02Z")
There is a difference between constructive criticism and just being a reprehensible old man. What I find interesting is that even though GWB was to most Republicans a likable guy and always had his, albeit small here, share of supporters, I don’t really recall anyone being fond of Cheney. He’s kind of like the creepy great uncle you’re sort of afraid of getting stuck alone with but is still invited to the family gatherings. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2009, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/23 "2009-03-16T21:52:26Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Nixon returned to California following his loss to Kennedy, and ran for Governor in 1962. It’s recalled as a very bitter campaign, but I don’t know what he said about national politics at the time. He was bitter and petulant after losing that one, and “retired” from politics, but according to Wikipedia, > It’s amazing that he announced his candidacy only 5 months before the convention. Very true. Nixon was ten times the statesman that Cheney is. We should also remember that the administration Nixon was a part of ended a war and didn’t begin any, and didn’t leave the country in a mess. The worst thing Kennedy said about them, the missile gap, turned out to be bogus. In another country Cheney is the kind of person who would support setting someone up with dictatorial powers to “save” the country. I wonder if he truly appreciates how much he is hated. The silver lining is - we don’t have to worry about what Stewart and Colbert can make fun of any more. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/24 "2009-03-16T22:02:12Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Apparently, dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism. > [@ShibbOleth](#): > > There is a difference between constructive criticism and just being a reprehensible old man. I think **astorian** ’s point is valid. Let the man speak, and refute what he says. Calling him names is a cheap shot and makes the point for the other side. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/25 "2009-03-16T22:02:12Z")
Are we absolutely 100% positive that Cheney will not run for President? Is he gambling that Obama will fail and therefore pave the way for him? I’m paranoid, I need reassurance. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2009, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/26 "2009-03-16T22:24:22Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > A couple of questions. I know Gore went bigtime flogging global warming, but I can’t remember such a high-ranking member of a previous administration being quite so openly critical of its successor. Carter and Clinton had no problem voicing their opinions during the Bush administration so you’re a little late with this thread. Aside from that, you’re attacking the messenger and not debating what he said which is quickly becoming an Obama trait. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/27 "2009-03-17T00:18:29Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > We should also remember that the administration Nixon was a part of ended a war and didn’t begin any . . . Waitaminnit, now. It was Ike (remember, we’re talking about **that** administration, not Nixon’s own) who refused to allow the scheduled national elections in Vietnam for fear Ho Chi Minh would win, and who first sent “advisors” to support the unpopular South Vietnamese government. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/28 "2009-03-17T00:37:12Z")
John Nance Garner kicked my dog. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/29 "2009-03-17T00:40:29Z")
Well, you should have been a bit more circumspect in your praise of Henry A Wallace. ETA: Gotta admit, though, that _was_ pretty dickish of him. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/30 "2009-03-17T03:13:53Z")
Cheney/Palin in 2012! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/31 "2009-03-17T03:34:08Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Very true. Nixon was ten times the statesman that Cheney is. We should also remember that the administration Nixon was a part of ended a war and didn’t begin any, and didn’t leave the country in a mess. It could also be very reasonably argued that Nixon had more to do with winning the Cold War than any other President, including the sainted-by-Republicans Reagan. Nixon’s brilliant success in forging detente with China fundamentally altered the entire world’s strategic balance, and specifically tilted the balance of power bewtween NATO and the USSR towards NATO. He may have been a creep but he did good things. Cheney did nothing good. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/32 "2009-03-17T03:38:15Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > There is a difference between constructive criticism and just being a reprehensible old man. Yes, and it’s sheer coincidence that all the ones who disagree with you on policy are the latter. > [@](#): > > What I find interesting is that even though GWB was to most Republicans a likable guy and always had his, albeit small here, share of supporters, I don’t really recall anyone being fond of Cheney. I liked him more than GWB. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/33 "2009-03-17T03:40:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Waitaminnit, now. It was Ike (remember, we’re talking about **that** administration, not Nixon’s own) who refused to allow the scheduled national elections in Vietnam for fear Ho Chi Minh would win, and who first sent “advisors” to support the unpopular South Vietnamese government. We stopped elections and sent advisers all over the place. That was what we did in those days. I suspect Ike was confident enough of his dick size (to keep the metaphor going) to not escalate. You might ding him more justifiably for setting up Bay of Pigs. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/34 "2009-03-17T04:18:02Z")
John Calhoun was a serious dick. He was a major pro-slavery advocate that spent the last twenty years of his life telling southerners that defending slavery was a matter of honor and they should never compromise an inch. He did as much as any man to make the civil war inevitable. And the result ironically was the destruction of everything he had stood for. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/35 "2009-03-17T04:49:14Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Yes, and it’s sheer coincidence that all the ones who disagree with you on policy are the latter. Really? Whom else has Shibboleth called ‘a reprehensible old man’? > [@Magiver](#): > > Carter and Clinton had no problem voicing their opinions during the Bush administration so you’re a little late with this thread. Aside from that, you’re attacking the messenger and not debating what he said which is quickly becoming an Obama trait. Obama trait? Care to elaborate, besides claiming that Obama attacked Limbaugh, which isn’t even close to true? > [@astorian](#): > > Apparently, dissent is no longer the highest form of patriotism. There’s a difference between dissenting and being a fearmongering jackass. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/36 "2009-03-17T05:02:01Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Really? Whom else has Shibboleth called ‘a reprehensible old man’? Right … I’m sure his beef with Dick is based in some sort of nuanced analysis of the criticisms, not on sheer partisanship. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/37 "2009-03-17T05:49:24Z")
> [@furt](#): > > Right … I’m sure his beef with Dick is based in some sort of nuanced analysis of the criticisms, not on sheer partisanship. :rolleyes: Nice job moving the goalposts. First everybody who disagreed with him was a reprehensible old man, now he’s a victim of Cheney Derangement Syndrome. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/38 "2009-03-17T06:37:44Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Obama trait? Care to elaborate, besides claiming that Obama attacked Limbaugh, which isn’t even close to true? Not that it will interfere with your political beliefs but Limbaugh was singled out by [David Axelrod](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/09/us/politics/09axelrod.html?_r=1) as a matter of White House policy: **He also helps decide which fights to pick and which ones to avoid, making him a leading voice in setting the political tone in Washington. The recent back-and-forth with Rush Limbaugh, for example, was explicitly authorized by Mr. Axelrod, who told aides that it was not a moment to sit quietly after Mr. Limbaugh said he hoped that Mr. Obama would “fail.”** The enemy’s list mentality falls in line with Axlerod’s long time friend Rahm Emanuel. 2 peas in a pod. > [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > There’s a difference between dissenting and being a fearmongering jackass. All Chaney did is point out that Obama is going down the same road as Clinton did and treat terrorism like it was a law enforcement matter. I suspect he’ll be the next White House pinata. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/39 "2009-03-17T08:02:57Z")
I think Cheney’s goal is: Whenever people hear his name, they think “big dick.” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633/40 "2009-03-17T08:13:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > The enemy’s list mentality […] I suspect he’ll be the next White House pinata. :dubious: I think you’re maybe being a bit melodramatic here, especially with your invocation of the concept of the [enemies list](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon's_Enemies_List). The original Nixonian “enemies list” > [@](#): > > was part of a campaign officially known as “Opponents List” and “Political Enemies Project.” The official purpose, as described by the White House Counsel’s Office, was to “screw” Nixon’s political enemies, by means of tax audits from the IRS, and by manipulating “grant availability, federal contracts, litigation, prosecution, etc.” Are you trying to suggest that Administration insiders like Axelrod and Emanuel are operating along these lines? AFAICT, all they’re doing is publicly criticizing a few high-profile public figures who publicly criticize them. Doesn’t seem very nefarious to me, so I think we can all ease up on the worrying about how poor defenseless Dick Cheney is going to be smashed like a “pinata” by the unbridled savagery of the Obama administration.\* And by the way, I don’t see anything particularly nefarious in Cheney’s current pissing and moaning about Obama’s foreign policy, either. It’s a free country. However, **Jack Batty** ’s right that if it’s not nefarious or treasonous, it’s nonetheless pretty hypocritical on Cheney’s part. Look at how he whined about criticism of his own Administration’s policies [back in 2004](http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Oct04/Berkowitz1002.htm): > [@](#): > > “John Kerry is trying to tear down all the good that has been accomplished, and his words are destructive to our effort in Iraq and in the global war on terror,” vice president Dick Cheney told a GOP rally in St. Joseph, Missouri. He thought it was harmful [in 2006, too](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/10/AR2006091000427.html): > [@](#): > > Vice President Cheney offered a veiled attack yesterday on critics of the administration’s Iraq policy, saying the domestic debate over the war is emboldening adversaries who believe they can undermine the resolve of the American people. […] “Suggestions, for example, that we should withdraw U.S. forces from Iraq simply feed into that whole notion, validates the strategy of the terrorists.” So when you criticize Bush/Cheney policies, you’re helping the terrorists, but criticizing Obama policies is just fine. Hmm. - Although, I must admit that I was pretty shocked by the sheer foul viciousness of what Obama [said about Limbaugh](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/23/obama-quit-listening-rush-limbaugh-want-things/). I mean, there the President was in a meeting with senators and all, and he actually used language like “You can’t just listen to Rush Limbaugh and get things done.” :eek: :eek: Goodness me, did you ever hear anything so ruthlessly hateful?? I mean, I don’t like Limbaugh at all myself, but I don’t understand how anybody could say anything so horrible about another human being. I just have to wonder if our culture can even survive the raw, bare-knuckled bloodthirsty levels of partisan antagonism that this Administration is unleashing on us. I cried for hours when I heard about it. ☹ :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-former-veep-as-big-a-dick-as-cheney/489633.md?page=3)