# Any fudge factor with adoption birth certificates (1960 and earlier)? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 14, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-fudge-factor-with-adoption-birth-certificates-1960-and-earlier/831129 "2019-03-14T15:18:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-fudge-factor-with-adoption-birth-certificates-1960-and-earlier/831129/21 "2019-03-15T02:28:14Z")
p.s. I can’t believe nobody’s mentioned the recent doco “Three Identical Strangers” yet - identical triplets who didn’t know any of this, nor did their families, until they were young adults, and found out that a lot of their adoptive background was based on deception. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-fudge-factor-with-adoption-birth-certificates-1960-and-earlier/831129/22 "2019-03-15T09:23:55Z")
I was about to mention the movie _Three Identical Strangers_ too. There are all sorts of complicated examples of what happened in adoptions. People would twist themselves into knots with their lies to avoid having to explain where a child came from. To mention some famous mothers that had a baby out of wedlock, there’s Dorothy L. Sayers: [http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Dorothy\_L.\_Sayers](http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Dorothy_L._Sayers) > **[Dorothy L. Sayers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_L._Sayers)** > > Dorothy Leigh Sayers (/sɛərz/;\[note 1\] 13 June 1893 – 17 December 1957) was an English crime writer and poet. She was also a student of classical and modern languages. > She is best known for her mysteries, a series of novels and short stories set between the First and Second World Wars that feature English aristocrat and amateur sleuth Lord Peter Wimsey. As a crime writer during the "Golden Age of Detective Fiction", Sayers was considered one of its four "Queens of Crime", alongside Agatha Chr... There’s Loretta Young: > **[Loretta Young Revealed Gable Love Child](https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=113142&page=1)** There’s Rebecca West: > **[Rebecca West](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebecca_West)** > > Dame Cicily Isabel Fairfield DBE (21 December 1892 – 15 March 1983), known as Rebecca West, or Dame Rebecca West, was a British author, journalist, literary critic and travel writer. An author who wrote in many genres, West reviewed books for The Times, the New York Herald Tribune, The Sunday Telegraph and The New Republic, and she was a correspondent for The Bookman. Her major works include Black Lamb and Grey Falcon (1941), on the history and culture of Yugoslavia; A Train of Powder (1955), ... > **[Rebecca West: A Modern Sibyl: Rollyson, Carl: 9780595488681: Amazon.com: Books](https://www.amazon.com/Rebecca-West-Modern-Carl-Rollyson/dp/0595488684)** > > Rebecca West: A Modern Sibyl \[Rollyson, Carl\] on Amazon.com. \*FREE\* shipping on qualifying offers. Rebecca West: A Modern Sibyl ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-fudge-factor-with-adoption-birth-certificates-1960-and-earlier/831129/23 "2019-03-15T09:46:30Z")
> [@md2000](#): > > Just out curiosity, what does an adoption birth certificate say - I assume it says something like “parents - redacted”? I assume it does not lie and say the adoptive parents are the biological parents? It doesn’t say they’re the biological parents, but it generally doesn’t say that for anybody. In most cases, a child is never tested to see who the biological parents are, so it couldn’t be certified. The adoptive parents are the parents, though, and that is what is certified. (And if a married woman gives birth to a child that grew out of a donated egg and donated sperm, she is the mother and her spouse is the father or second mother.) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-fudge-factor-with-adoption-birth-certificates-1960-and-earlier/831129/24 "2019-03-15T13:08:56Z")
Another vote that unwed expectant HS mothers were routinely sent away to have their baby in the 60s. Saw that happen several times. There were maternity homes around where the women could be kept out of site of “proper society”, etc., etc., and all that nonsense. So location of birth should be correct. It may be possible to track down a list of such maternity homes in that city at that time, but I’m not sure if that would be at all useful. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-fudge-factor-with-adoption-birth-certificates-1960-and-earlier/831129/25 "2019-03-15T13:26:28Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > This is the default in every state I know about; in many states, an adoptee does not even have the right to see the original birth certificate, or must go to court and convince a judge they have good and sufficient reasons. That sounds right. I’d have to go find my son’s certificate to check what it says. We didn’t formalize the adoption until he was a year old so we have both the original and the new one produced. > [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Granted, my personal experience is “not very many”, but the people I know nowadays who adopted still-young kids know that whatever their kids’ background was, it WAS horrible because they adopted the children out of an orphanage or foster care. It’s also obvious, with one exception, that the children are adopted because they are not the same race as their adoptive parents. Essentially, most babies with healthy mothers are adopted before they are born, or before they even leave the hospital. A child up for adoption at an agency after they are born is an indication of a ‘problem’, although sometimes the problem is just racism. It is bizarre to me that some children are still raised without knowing they are adopted. It is far, far less common that it used to be. Good friends of ours had a medical mystery with one of their kids. There was no way his problems were not genetic but there was no family history to indicate it, until grandma (the mom’s mom) one day said “I have something to tell you”. Her daughter was nearly forty years old and had never had a clue. ---
**Author:** ![Carryon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc29f/32.png) [@Carryon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carryon)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-fudge-factor-with-adoption-birth-certificates-1960-and-earlier/831129/26 "2019-03-15T15:37:12Z")
also the biological mother could’ve been with more than one man and not known who was the father or was mistaken. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-fudge-factor-with-adoption-birth-certificates-1960-and-earlier/831129/27 "2019-03-15T15:53:03Z")
> [@Carryon](#): > > also the biological mother could’ve been with more than one man and not known who was the father or was mistaken. Or didn’t identify him intentionally. This could happen with any birth certificate whether the baby is put up for adoption or not. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-fudge-factor-with-adoption-birth-certificates-1960-and-earlier/831129/28 "2019-03-15T16:29:15Z")
A girl could have been sent to a “home for unwed mothers” but more likely, sent to “live with an aunt” or similar to avoid local scandal. While an adoption in a smaller town may not be from someone in the same town, I would imagine when a city reaches a certain size the risk of people “putting 2 plus 2 together” is nonexistent and the child was actually born there. There’s also a distinction between children who are adopted out because the mother/parents were found to be neglectful, versus a baby put up for adoption at birth. The former are more likely to have assorted problems - plus as pointed out, every child is a crap-shoot if the parental history is unknown. But with the wider availability of sex education, birth control, and abortion and especially social acceptance of single mothers - the number of young healthy unwed mothers accidentally getting pregnant and pressured into giving up the child at birth is far lower than say, the 60’s or 70’s. Consequently, the number of healthy normal babies available is far lower. (I talked to a lady a few years ago whose adopted brother had FAS - Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. One symptom was an inability to think through actions. When this lady was about 16 and had her own car, her younger unlicensed brother took it out joyriding one night. He hit a tree and drove the car back and parked it in the garage. Did he think nobody would notice or blame him for a smashed in grill?) My thought with the OP is that the agency lied about the status of the parents, or were misinformed. Or “she’ll be going to college in the fall” was translated to “college student”. I suspect the location of birth is correct because there’s no deep reason to lie. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-fudge-factor-with-adoption-birth-certificates-1960-and-earlier/831129/29 "2019-03-15T22:59:27Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > It is bizarre to me that some children are still raised without knowing they are adopted. It is far, far less common that it used to be. Good friends of ours had a medical mystery with one of their kids. There was no way his problems were not genetic but there was no family history to indicate it, until grandma (the mom’s mom) one day said “I have something to tell you”. Her daughter was nearly forty years old and had never had a clue. How about people who were adopted by a stepfather at a very early age, and their mothers really believe that the child does not know this? Back in the day, it was also not all that uncommon for grandparents to adopt the (usually, but not always) daughter’s baby. When and whether the child is told the truth differs widely from family to family, and there are several famous people who found out as adults that this was what happened. The ones that immediately come to mind are Bobby Darin and Jack Nicholson. ---
**Author:** ![Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ce7236/32.png) [@Mona\_Lisa\_Simpson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mona_Lisa_Simpson)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2019, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-fudge-factor-with-adoption-birth-certificates-1960-and-earlier/831129/30 "2019-03-15T23:58:24Z")
I have a few cousins out there who were adopted far away from my home town. My aunts went to Toronto or Winnipeg “to look for jobs”. My mother knew one of her sisters put a child up for adoption, another one told her “I met my son!” a few years ago. I would not be surprised if I discover another cousin or two, now that my grandmother has died. An ex-boyfriend of mine was adopted into northern Ontario from a Catholic adoption agency in Hamilton ON. He has met his birth mother, and we were glad to discover he wasn’t my long lost cousin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-fudge-factor-with-adoption-birth-certificates-1960-and-earlier/831129.md?page=1)