# Any good attributes about Swedens immigration? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 25, 2015, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810 "2015-05-25T17:29:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dr\_zippermeyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c0e974/32.png) [@dr\_zippermeyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dr_zippermeyer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/21 "2015-05-26T15:25:11Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > Doubt that. The Swedish attitude to immigration and public debate about immigration is frequently discussed in Norway and the Norwegian press. Immigration is a subject where the Nordic nations differ sharply. > > If you use google translate, here are some samples from Aftenposten, roughly equivalent to the “Times” in the UK: > > [http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/--Debatt-om-innvandring-er-tabu-i-Sverige-8025558.html](http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/--Debatt-om-innvandring-er-tabu-i-Sverige-8025558.html) > > [http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Sverige-har-mistet-kontrollen-over-integreringspolitikken-8021812.html](http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Sverige-har-mistet-kontrollen-over-integreringspolitikken-8021812.html) > > The point is not that Sweden does not have problems with their immigration policy, or their consensus that problems are not to be spoken about but that your comment is so hyperbolic as to not resemble reality in any meaningful way. > > For example, if I were to adress the ongoing problem with police shootings in the US is a smiliar manner, it comes out looking something like this: > > \*"Future generations won’t be merciful when they are examining how rest of the world dealt with America. By allowing this madness to continue, we are betraying the American people every day. America itself is responsible of its actions only in the same sense than a lunatic running through the city naked, wild gaze in his eyes, banging his head with a spatula. It is a great shame for us that we just act like nothing unusual is happening. > > To understand America, we must notice it is essentially a totalitarian state: it has been so at least last 50 years (see The New Totalitarians by Huntford), probably much longer. America of today lacks free press and secret voting. It couldn’t care less about violent attacks against opposition politicians. People are forced to right mould starting already in kindergarden. They are subjected to rather cruel but simultaneously ingenious brainwashing thorough their school years (one of my best friends went school there). That way they are made to hate each other: white against black, christian against muslim, traditional nationalism, being American. > > Decades of brainwashing has left Americans in kind of a vegetative state. They are still successfull in many areas in life but as a citizens they are like helpless children. > > For more information about what is the reality in America today, please check out [http://sheeplereport.org/](http://sheeplereport.org/)"\* > > Did that look reasonable to you? A realistic assessment of the situation? It is somewhat closer, as the situation in the US is far more severe than the conditions in Sweden, but its not what you’d call recognizable as part of our reality. Yes, I know Norway is not so deep as Sweden. But none of the neighbours of Sweden has no reason to be happy or satisfied. Paths of Sweden and its neighbours started to go to different ways only recently. The way you edited my citation is irrelevant because USA is not totalitarian society. People can talk whatever they like, you have to say really heavy stuff to go to jail or get fined because of it. Anyone can start a political movement, newspaper or TV station and compete somewhat fairly with others. People go to schools and universities that are far from uniform. Other people won’t see what you vote in elections. If you feel your home state is going to wrong direction you can easily move to neighbour state. Using of violence in political competition is almost universally condemned. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/22 "2015-05-26T15:42:05Z")
> [@dr\_zippermeyer](#): > > Yes, I know Norway is not so deep as Sweden. But none of the neighbours of Sweden has no reason to be happy or satisfied. Paths of Sweden and its neighbours started to go to different ways only recently. > > Those of us who actually live here have reason to disagree. > > The way you edited my citation is irrelevant because USA is not totalitarian society. People can talk whatever they like, you have to say really heavy stuff to go to jail or get fined because of it. Anyone can start a political movement, newspaper or TV station and compete somewhat fairly with others. People go to schools and universities that are far from uniform. Other people won’t see what you vote in elections. If you feel your home state is going to wrong direction you can easily move to neighbour state. Using of violence in political competition is almost universally condemned. I have lived in the US, and at the very least, Americans enjoy a massively lower level of freedom. I would not go so far as to call the US anywhere near a totalitarian society, but on the criteria you list, it is further in that direction. Starting a political movement, media business and compete is incredibly much harder in the US than in Scandinavia. Going to university is financially much harder, restricted to a much lower fraction of the population, and the range of universities actually attended much narrower. People have more freedom to move, to a much larger range of political and cultural environments. And this…" People can talk whatever they like, you have to say really heavy stuff to go to jail or get fined because of it… Other people won’t see what you vote in elections… Using of violence in political competition is almost universally condemned." You say that as if you think it is remarkable in some way? Most other nations wouldn’t even think to mention issues like that, because they are in the of-course zone. Are they questionable where you live? ---
**Author:** ![mascaroni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dc4da7/32.png) [@mascaroni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mascaroni)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/23 "2015-05-26T15:50:02Z")
> [@](#): > > OK, I didn’t have an idea swamp has such meaning. That was a pretty British connotation of the word. Non-Brits probably wouldn’t see it that way… > [@](#): > > You shouldn’t be upset, it is superb product. You can try in case you have LIDL’s in UK. 🙂 Yes. we’ve got LIDL’s. And I’m not at all upset. Maybe I should just lick myself…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/24 "2015-05-26T15:51:38Z")
Swedes have a lot going for them. A very organised culture, they generally pull together and have a strong social consensus. They are practical people and they have a famously comprehensive and good quality welfare and social security system as well high taxes to pay for it. In some respects it is a bit of a ‘nanny state’ run by social workers, which does not make it the most exciting place in the world, but things get done. Their political system is much more transparent than many other countries. I have heard that everyones tax return is available for inspection. Looking at the immigration numbers, they don’t look dramatic and their approach to refugees is far more enlightened than many other countries. They tend to do a lot of navel gazing and thinking up new socially responsible laws to cover every eventuality, but I guess they have to do something to pass those long winter nights of sub-zero temperatures. I suspect that some of the negative remarks are probably someone venting feelings of sour grapes over Swedens recent success in the Eurovision Song Contest. > **[Stories - Eurovision Song Contest](https://eurovision.tv/stories?id=sweden_wins_2015_eurovision_song_contest)** > > Official website of the Eurovision Song Contest. The latest news, photos, videos, participant info, voting results, the Contest's rich history and much more. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_zippermeyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c0e974/32.png) [@dr\_zippermeyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dr_zippermeyer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/25 "2015-05-26T15:58:12Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > I have lived in the US, and at the very least, Americans enjoy a massively lower level of freedom. > > I would not go so far as to call the US anywhere near a totalitarian society, but on the criteria you list, it is further in that direction. > > Starting a political movement, media business and compete is incredibly much harder in the US than in Scandinavia. Going to university is financially much harder, restricted to a much lower fraction of the population, and the range of universities actually attended much narrower. People have more freedom to move, to a much larger range of political and cultural environments. If media business is harder in USA it is maybe because newspapers etc have to earn their money. They won’t get paid by government for lying to people. What does financial access to university have to do with totalitarianism? I agree Swedes have freedom to move away, that is not typical in totalitarian society. For me it somewhat a mystery why there still are no mass emigration (except maybe to Norway). Probably because they still can escape from worst areas to other places in Sweden. > [@Grim\_Render](#): > > And this…" People can talk whatever they like, you have to say really heavy stuff to go to jail or get fined because of it… Other people won’t see what you vote in elections… Using of violence in political competition is almost universally condemned." > > You say that as if you think it is remarkable in some way? Most other nations wouldn’t even think to mention issues like that, because they are in the of-course zone. Are they questionable where you live? I feel like you ignore what I am writing. This is not about where I live, this is about Sweden. Yes, those things are issues in Sweden. As a Norwegian you should be aware of this. ---
**Author:** ![dr\_zippermeyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c0e974/32.png) [@dr\_zippermeyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dr_zippermeyer)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/26 "2015-05-26T16:05:57Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > Swedes have a lot going for them. > > A very organised culture, they generally pull together and have a strong social consensus. They are practical people and they have a famously comprehensive and good quality welfare and social security system as well high taxes to pay for it. In some respects it is a bit of a ‘nanny state’ run by social workers, which does not make it the most exciting place in the world, but things get done. Their political system is much more transparent than many other countries. I have heard that everyones tax return is available for inspection. Looking at the immigration numbers, they don’t look dramatic and their approach to refugees is far more enlightened than many other countries. They tend to do a lot of navel gazing and thinking up new socially responsible laws to cover every eventuality, but I guess they have to do something to pass those long winter nights of sub-zero temperatures. > > I suspect that some of the negative remarks are probably someone venting feelings of sour grapes over Swedens recent success in the Eurovision Song Contest. > > [http://www.eurovision.tv/page/news?id=sweden\_wins\_2015\_eurovision\_song\_contest](http://www.eurovision.tv/page/news?id=sweden_wins_2015_eurovision_song_contest) 🙂 I just ranted how history will condemn our generation for letting Sweden - as a first modern western nation to do so - to commit a suicide. You quite nicely put together how this can be happening. People just repeat those cliches over and over again without a slightest interest to dig any deeper to get to know the truth of this “awesome” country. But I have to say Swedish ruling elite is quite skillful at decepting people so I can’t really blame you. They truly know how to look like a friendly sheep, even if you are a wolf. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/27 "2015-05-26T16:06:24Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > Going to university is financially much harder, **restricted to a much lower fraction of the population** , and the range of universities actually attended much narrower. Proportion of population aged 25-64 that hold university degrees in 2010: United States: 42% Sweden: 34% From page 10 of [this](https://www.uk-ambetet.se/download/18.1c251de913ecebc40e780003405/1403093616367/annual-report-2013-ny.pdf): US is 4th most educated country in the world: [http://247wallst.com/special-report/2012/09/21/the-most-educated-countries-in-the-world/3/](http://247wallst.com/special-report/2012/09/21/the-most-educated-countries-in-the-world/3/) ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/28 "2015-05-26T16:19:49Z")
> [@dr\_zippermeyer](#): > > 🙂 > > I just ranted how history will condemn our generation for letting Sweden - as a first modern western nation to do so - to commit a suicide. You quite nicely put together how this can be happening. People just repeat those cliches over and over again without a slightest interest to dig any deeper to get to know the truth of this “awesome” country. But I have to say Swedish ruling elite is quite skillful at decepting people so I can’t really blame you. They truly know how to look like a friendly sheep, even if you are a wolf. So what does the ruling elite get out of this “national suicide”? What’s the motive? ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/29 "2015-05-26T17:08:58Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Help me debunk the paranoia about Sweden’s Immigration policy. > > I’d like an informed view of what’s going on in Sweden, there’s an undercurrent about its immigration policy, which is stated as tantamount to national suicide, [snip] I assume that the paranoia and the undercurrent you have perceived are of international origin. As a Swede I’m interested in those sources, would you (or any other member) like to share a few of links that would perhaps give me a picture of this? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/30 "2015-05-26T17:40:31Z")
I suppose they could try to attract some of us Swedish Americans. There are over 4 million of us, descended mostly from people who emigrated from Sweden in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Speaking of Swedish Americans, we were known for not assimilating when we moved here. Give your immigrants 50-100 years and see how they’re assimilating then. Most of us now don’t speak Swedish (I don’t, but I wish I did). Assimilating immigrants tends to be a long game. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/31 "2015-05-26T19:12:06Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > I have heard that everyones tax return is available for inspection. Uh, what? Sounds like a massive breach of privacy. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/32 "2015-05-26T19:21:44Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Proportion of population aged 25-64 that hold university degrees in 2010: > > United States: 42% > Sweden: 34% > > From page 10 of [this](https://www.uk-ambetet.se/download/18.1c251de913ecebc40e780003405/1403093616367/annual-report-2013-ny.pdf): > > US is 4th most educated country in the world: [http://247wallst.com/special-report/2012/09/21/the-most-educated-countries-in-the-world/3/](http://247wallst.com/special-report/2012/09/21/the-most-educated-countries-in-the-world/3/) Well, that certainly seems strange to me. It is quite possible that I am wrong of course, it would hardly be the first time. However…does it seem intuitive to you that nearly every other American attended university and completed a degree? Does that seem like a reasonable representation of the population at large? And it would be at every age level 64 year olds down to 25. Now, I don’t know what the college dropout rate has been, historically. But the [National Student Clearinghouse](http://nscresearchcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/SignatureReport8.pdf) reports that after six years, 30 % of the students had left university without any degree. So that would mean that over the last 50 years or so, 59 % of every year went on to university. Of course,[Business Insider](http://www.businessinsider.com/r-us-falls-behind-in-college-competition-oecd-2014-9) says the US is number 19, however well ahead of Canada, that your link listed as number one. Its a bit all over the place. Now, looking at the people with the numbers, the [US census bureau](http://www.census.gov/prod/2012pubs/p20-566.pdf), they report a much lower number, 28 %. > [@dr\_zippermeyer](#): > > If media business is harder in USA it is maybe because newspapers etc have to earn their money. They won’t get paid by government for lying to people. Well, supporting news media is an issue of freedom, really. However, its mainly because its easier to start businesses in Scandinavia in general. As for the notion that media in Scandinavia get paid to lie to the people, I think thats going to need a cite. The region generally scores far higher than the US on [press freedom](https://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php). > [@dr\_zippermeyer](#): > > What does financial access to university have to do with totalitarianism? Access to university is related to freedom, the opposite of totalitarianism. Restricting access to education and information is a tried and true means of dictatorships to keep in power. While the US is not a dictatorship, access to university is financially restricted, witch limits individual freedom compared to Scandinavia. > [@dr\_zippermeyer](#): > > I agree Swedes have freedom to move away, that is not typical in totalitarian society. For me it somewhat a mystery why there still are no mass emigration (except maybe to Norway). Probably because they still can escape from worst areas to other places in Sweden. Perhaps you should consider that for a while? Why isn’t the people of a prosperous country with one of the worlds lowest crime rates, an expansive welfare state and great opportunities to work your way up, leaving for countries unlike it? > [@dr\_zippermeyer](#): > > I feel like you ignore what I am writing. This is not about where I live, this is about Sweden. Yes, those things are issues in Sweden. As a Norwegian you should be aware of this. Well, I don’t know everything. I do feel it would be quite exceptional if other people can see whom you vote for in Sweden, and I hadn’t heard of it, or it hadn’t come up in our many public discussions of Swedish political conformity. It would be frigging different from how we fundamentally view democracy. Do you have a cite for that? Or freedom of speech, or violence as a means of political expression. That is why I ask if these things are not obvious in your country. Like the riots over black people shot by police in the US may indicate that the use of violence as a means of political expression is not as shocking in all countries. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Render](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a87d85/32.png) [@Grim\_Render](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Render)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/33 "2015-05-26T19:23:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Uh, what? Sounds like a massive breach of privacy. He is probably thinking of Norway. I can give you a link if you want. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/34 "2015-05-26T19:32:07Z")
Being able to vote confidentially (i.e., closed curtain booth), is critical to prevent voter intimidation or coercion. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/35 "2015-05-26T19:35:25Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > Well, that certainly seems strange to me. It is quite possible that I am wrong of course, it would hardly be the first time. However…does it seem intuitive to you that nearly every other American attended university and completed a degree? Note that the [cite](https://www.uk-ambetet.se/download/18.1c251de913ecebc40e780003405/1403093616367/annual-report-2013-ny.pdf) I gave you is a Swedish report (see page 10 for comparison with the US). Also note that it doesn’t talk about university degrees, either for the US or for Sweden. It talks about “tertiary qualifications (degrees)”. I can easily believe that almost every other American has completed at least an associate degree. What I am surprised at is that with “free” tertiary education in Sweden, their education rates lag United States. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/36 "2015-05-26T20:27:08Z")
> [@Grim\_Render](#): > > Well, I don’t know everything. I do feel it would be quite exceptional if other people can see whom you vote for in Sweden, and I hadn’t heard of it, or it hadn’t come up in our many public discussions of Swedish political conformity. It would be frigging different from how we fundamentally view democracy. > > Do you have a cite for that? He or she isn’t far off-base here, according to [this article](http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6130994): > [@](#): > > “When I got into the polling station I simply couldn’t believe my eyes” says Christian Dworeck, who moved to Sweden from Germany. He went to vote in the EU election last year. > > What he saw was a big table full of voting slips for each party. He could clearly see who people were voting for, by seeing which of the different party ballot papers they took. > > If you really want to make sure no one sees who you vote for you have to literally take slips from all the parties - and there can be dozens. This includes at least eight major parties and many small radical, joke or single-issue ones. > > In Sweden there are lots of individual ballot papers because each party has its own list of candidates. That means each party needs a whole slip of its own in order to present the whole slate, this allows people to vote up the lower candidates if they want. > > But do the Swedish people even mind people seeing who they vote for? > > … > > But new Swedish voter Christian Dworeck is not impressed, and he has asked the EU Commission to make sure Sweden is keeping to the rules on everyone’s right to keep their vote secret. ---
**Author:** ![Huvudtvatt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Huvudtvatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huvudtvatt)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/37 "2015-05-26T21:23:40Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > He or she isn’t far off-base here, according to [this article](http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=2054&artikel=6130994): I’d say that’s pretty far off base. As mentioned in the article, you vote by putting a slip of paper with your party in an envelope, which is then put in a box at the polling station. _Nobody can see what you put in the envelope if you don’t want them to_ or link the envelope to you once it is in the box. So you can, as mentioned, pick slips from several different parties and stuff your envelope anonymously in a booth. Or you can do this at home and bring the stuffed envelopes to the polling station. Or you can vote by mail. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2015, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/38 "2015-05-26T22:01:55Z")
> [@Wakinyan](#): > > I assume that the paranoia and the undercurrent you have perceived are of international origin. As a Swede I’m interested in those sources, would you (or any other member) like to share a few of links that would perhaps give me a picture of this? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/EjhqZujuS9M/maxresdefault.jpg "Locals question Sweden's immigration policy") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjhqZujuS9M) ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/39 "2015-05-27T01:52:28Z")
Immigration is an issue in countries across Europe. I don’t see that the pressures are greater in Sweden than anywhere else. If the crisis is caused by refugees escaping the conflict in Syria, the easiest way to deal with it is pay Turkey and Jordan to take them. This is what is happening behind the scenes. There is much that can also be done in Libya. It is sad to say that EU countries are not handling this problem well. Each tries to push back the tide to their neighbours and nationalist parties flourish. Refugees will go to countries that are most sympathetic and have welfare systems that actually work. So they head for Northern Europe. This is not just a Swedish problem. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2015, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810/40 "2015-05-27T02:35:53Z")
> [@dr\_zippermeyer](#): > > To understand Sweden, we must notice it is essentially a totalitarian state: it has been so at least last 50 years (see The New Totalitarians by Huntford), probably much longer. Sweden of today lacks free press and secret voting. It couldn’t care less about violent attacks against opposition politicians. People are forced to right mould starting already in kindergarden. They are subjected to rather cruel but simultaneously ingenious brainwashing thorough their school years (one of my best friends went school there). That way they are made to hate everything they are supposed to represent: being white, being male, being heterosexual, Christianity, traditional nationalism, being European. There’s glory for you! > [@dr\_zippermeyer](#): > > I just ranted how history will condemn our generation for letting Sweden - as a first modern western nation to do so - to commit a suicide. Ah, yes. The “suicide” claim. Gee, [where](http://www.amren.com/tag/racial-suicide/) [have I heard](http://smashcm.blogspot.com/2014/02/white-race-suicide-by-dr-william-pierce.html) [that sort](http://www.amerika.org/politics/the-white-race-committed-suicide/) of [rhetoric](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUyzeb3_jIA)? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-attributes-about-swedens-immigration/720810.md?page=3)