# Any good "hard" SF that isn't depressing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 14, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948 "2018-10-14T20:50:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/41 "2018-10-16T01:36:03Z")
Also good for hard SF with pretty happy endings, try Julie Czerneda’s Species Imperative series, and it’s also written within the last 15 years. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/42 "2018-10-16T01:59:36Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Besides, the Good Guys won, and get to decide who was criminal, and who wasn’t. Well, them, and members of future generations who aren’t dead or conquered, but see fit to second-guess the manner by which their liberty and their very lives were provided. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/43 "2018-10-16T02:01:31Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Well, them, and members of future generations who aren’t dead or conquered, but see fit to second-guess the manner by which their liberty and their very lives were provided. 😉 Indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/44 "2018-10-16T02:06:04Z")
> [@Hapax\_Legomenon](#): > > “Rocket Girls” by Hosuke Nojiri. Similar to ‘The Martian’ in that there’s a focus on the practicalities and logistics of space travel; generally very upbeat and has a happy ending. Since we have now touched on Japanese light novels, might as well leap all the way to manga. Take a look at [Uchuu Kyoudai](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Brothers_(manga))/[Space Brothers](https://www.crunchyroll.com/comics/manga/space-brothers/volumes). Up to 325 chapters now. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/45 "2018-10-16T02:08:18Z")
The best stories (to me) punch your heart then give you a sweet ending. You should read Forever War ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/46 "2018-10-16T04:53:06Z")
I would recommend Poul Anderson’s _The High Crusade_. Medieval Englishmen take on an interstellar empire. There are some humorous bits and an upbeat ending. Anderson wrote some stories that are upbeat and/or pretty funny and some that were tragic. His short story “Day of Burning” gives Chee Lan some funny lines and is pretty good. That story uses FTL travel, but _Tau Zero_ was firmly grounded in the hard science of the early 1970’s and has a great ending. I recently read Connie Willis’ _The Domesday Book_, and while parts are grim, it does have an ending as upbeat as can be about the Black Death. Highly recommended. Fritz Leiber’s novel _The Silver Eggheads_ is hilarious and has a great ending. Someone mentioned P.J. Farmer’s Riverworld series. Try _The Maker of Universes_, the first and best of the World of Tiers series. I agree that Heinlein, Niven, and Asimov were generally upbeat. Pournelle and Niven’s _Lucifer’s Hammer_ has an optimistic ending although much of the world gets destroyed. Someone mentioned Arthur C. Clarke and I would try _Childhood’s End_ and _The Sands of Mars_. Also recommended are Zelazy’s _Lord of Light, Creatures of Light and Darkness_, and “The Doors of his Eyes, the Lamps of his Mouth.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/47 "2018-10-16T14:41:11Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > The best stories (to me) punch your heart then give you a sweet ending. > > You should read Forever War Which version? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/48 "2018-10-16T15:22:48Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I don’t recall Earth signing any treaties with the Fithp. > > If they wanted humans to play nice, maybe they shouldn’t have invaded Earth in the first place. No, they clearly cheat. They work out with the traveler fithp that the Red Cross means ‘wounded, do not bomb’ then use that to disguise the Orion project. The fithp are outraged by that and promise - should they win - to bomb every place that ever used the red cross. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/49 "2018-10-16T23:21:35Z")
I inserted post #46 that was posted in a different thread my mistake. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2018, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/50 "2018-10-16T23:37:11Z")
Since this is a thread specifically oriented toward new ideas for stuff to read… could I request that you guys take any extended exchange about plot points to a separate thread? There’s a discussion that appears to be half-spoilered - I can’t tell without actually reading the comments. At the moment I’m having to try to skim over certain posts without reading them. ---
**Author:** ![Hapax\_Legomenon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8c91f0/32.png) [@Hapax\_Legomenon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hapax_Legomenon)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/51 "2018-10-17T14:51:38Z")
> [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](#): > > I recently read Connie Willis’ _The Domesday Book_, and while parts are grim, it does have an ending as upbeat as can be about the Black Death. Highly recommended. I wouldn’t call it “hard” SF, but seconding the recommendation. If you want something that’s not depressing at ALL, try the comedic semi-sequel, “To Say Nothing Of The Dog”, which is set partly in Victorian England. Ted Chiang’s short stories are “hard” in the sense that they take a fantastical idea to its logical conclusion, although on the SF-to-fantasy scale most of them are toward the ‘fantasy’ end. I’d especially recommend “Seventy-Two Letters” and “Tower of Babylon”. “The Lifecycle of Software Objects” is the closest of his works to hard SF, and is enjoyable. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/52 "2018-10-17T15:59:32Z")
I’ll second _To Say Nothing of the Dog_. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/53 "2018-10-17T16:16:11Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > I inserted post #46 that was posted in a different thread my mistake. > > [/moderating] It probably looked pretty out of place in that discussion of all-time worst Hall of Fame quarterbacks, I bet. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/54 "2018-10-17T16:56:12Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I will point out that “Forty Thousand in Gehenna” is also an Alliance-Union novel by Cherryh. > > The Chanur novels are also set in the same universe, though in a part of space not (usually) inhabited by humans. Same physics/technology is involved. Yes, and you could also include _Serpent’s Reach_, about a human colony coexisting with large, intelligent ant-like aliens. And for that matter, the whole _Foreigner_ series. _Voyager in Night_ is highly recommended for people who are in favor of uploading copies of themselves to intelligent computers. It might make you think twice… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/55 "2018-10-17T18:02:05Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > But also, with so much other great Asimov, I wouldn’t recommend the Foundation series to someone looking for hard SF. I could never get beyond how ridiculous I found the idea of psychohistory. No more than matter transmitters or FTL travel. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/56 "2018-10-17T20:25:35Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Which reminds me of _Redshirts_ by John Scalzi. > > I’m drifting a bit from hard SF now, but it’s very funny, audiobook read by Wil Wheaton. Oooh! I’ve read the print version but Wil Wheaton reading it would be _epic_! ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/57 "2018-10-18T04:22:07Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No more than matter transmitters or FTL travel. Well, exactly. With all due respect to the good Doctor, nothing about the Foundation Trilogy is hard SF. Telepathic mutants? FTL? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/58 "2018-10-18T04:58:24Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Well, exactly. With all due respect to the good Doctor, nothing about the Foundation Trilogy is hard SF. Telepathic mutants? FTL? That \*is \*hard SF. FTL has been part of hard SF since day 1. > **[bestsciencefictionbooks.com - This website is for...](http://bestsciencefictionbooks.com/best-hard-science-fiction-books.php)** > > This website is for sale! bestsciencefictionbooks.com is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, bestsciencefictionbooks.com has it all. We hope you... "_At number two on our list of top hard science fiction books is Foundation by Issac Asimov. Why number two? Because we couldn’t have a joint number one, that’s why. Many of Asimov’s books would have fitted the bill, but given Foundation is part of the original foundation (sorry) of modern science fiction, we thought it the best starting point. With it’s sprawling, space-opera like setting, it’s focus on science and history and Asimov’s classic turn of phrase, it’s no wonder this novel has remained popular for decades after it was first published. Foundation takes the familiar starting point of the fall of an Empire, sets it in space and adds in that vital ingredient hope. Mixed together, we get a soaring epic that spans both space and time. Not only is the technology realistic, but so are the characters and society. Asimov is master of both story and science, and it’s evident throughout this. The best part is, this is the first in a series! So you can read even more!"_ ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/59 "2018-10-18T05:22:57Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That \*is \*hard SF. > > FTL has been part of hard SF since day 1. Disagree. FTL, telepathy and psychohistory are all impossible. If SF has no impossibilities in it then it is diamond hard - if it has one impossibility it is hardish, two impossibilities takes it towards softness and three impossibilities borders on fantasy. I don’t suppose for a moment that Asimov thought he was writing hard SF. This is space opera at its finest. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2018, 6:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948/60 "2018-10-18T06:26:55Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Disagree. FTL, telepathy and psychohistory are all impossible. If SF has no impossibilities in it then it is diamond hard - if it has one impossibility it is hardish, two impossibilities takes it towards softness and three impossibilities borders on fantasy. And why do you say FTL is impossible? That’s YOUR definition and I just cited a source that sez Foundation Trilogy ties for 1st as the best Hard SF ever. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-hard-sf-that-isnt-depressing/822948.md?page=4)