# Any good sources on medieval France? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 25, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954 "2010-07-25T16:25:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Satyagrahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Satyagrahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satyagrahi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/1 "2010-07-25T16:25:29Z")
Mrs. Satyagrahi is looking for good secondary sources on daily life in the south of France in the 13th Century: What they wore, what they ate, what class divisions were like, etc., etc., and–here’s the hard part: in English. She’s researching for a novel but finds herself greatly hampered by the fact that her command of modern French is shaky and her command of Middle French and Occitan is non-existent. Google searches come up with endless sources for medieval England, Spain, the Netherlands but very little for France, especially southern France. Does anyone know of a good secondary source in English? Or failing that, is anyone here knowledgeable on the subject and willing to hold forth? We’ll even take someone claiming to be channeling Raymond of Toulouse. 🙂 Any help would be greatly appreciated… ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/2 "2010-07-25T16:34:03Z")
How about John Butt’s _Daily Life in the Age of Charlemagne_ for a start? It’s not specifically about the south of France, but I’d think it would be a good grounding for the subject. It’s available through Amazon and on Googlebooks, though I didn’t check if the latter is complete. ETA: The Amazon review says it’s deadly and dry, but the reviewer they quote is a high school librarian; I’m assuming **Mrs. S.** is a more capable reader than your average 15-year-old but do try out a few excerpts online first. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/3 "2010-07-25T18:24:30Z")
Try Linda Paterson’s “The World of the Troubadours:Medieval Occitan Society, c.1100-c.1300” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/4 "2010-07-25T18:26:11Z")
you might find Barbara Tuchman’s [A Distant Mirror](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Distant_Mirror) helpful. It’s about the 14th century, but a very good rendering of the medieval landscape. ---
**Author:** ![Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Fried\_Dough\_Ho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fried_Dough_Ho)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/5 "2010-07-25T18:29:36Z")
Get in touch with the Society of Creative Anachronism. Yeah, a bunch of these people are slightly whacked (and I say that with all the possible love and affection from having once been a part of them), but these people take their re-creation VERY seriously, researching every aspects of daily life, food, clothing, manners, etc. I am still on a few of their food boards and reading the extent of the culinary history is very impressive with many of their members ultimately presenting papers at the Oxford Symposium. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/6 "2010-07-25T18:44:35Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > How about John Butt’s _Daily Life in the Age of Charlemagne_ for a start? It’s not specifically about the south of France, but I’d think it would be a good grounding for the subject. It’s available through Amazon and on Googlebooks, though I didn’t check if the latter is complete. ETA: The Amazon review says it’s deadly and dry, but the reviewer they quote is a high school librarian; I’m assuming **Mrs. S.** is a more capable reader than your average 15-year-old but do try out a few excerpts online first. Charlemagne ? That’s 9th century, not 13th. 400 years can make a bit of a difference :). OP : drop me a PM if you’ve got a specific question I can run a search for on the French interwebz , or find an online French source you can’t make heads or tails of, I’ll give a shot at translating or at least summarizing it. ---
**Author:** ![FluffyBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@FluffyBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FluffyBob)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/7 "2010-07-25T18:57:54Z")
I have not formally studied medieval history for 20 years so my perspective is probably out of date, but I would think that the age of Charlemagne (8th) a dramatically different time than the 13th century. Not to say there would not be similarities, but a lot of change took place between theses periods. Charlemagne’s era is viewed as only the beginning of the French (even European) identity, but this is very early in the middle ages. Charlemagne’s people were the Franks. It really was only the beginning of most medieval European economic, social and legal structures, and was preceded and followed by periods of feudal disunity and general instability. By the 13th century, medieval culture has developed considerably with hundreds of years of relative stability, economic growth and cultural development. Trade and economic organization have increased dramatically with the appearance of guilds for example and a merchant class. Social roles were likely quite different. I have nothing to add but there should be a lot of material on this period in French history, much more than on Charlemagne’s era just due to a much more developed culture. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/8 "2010-07-25T19:55:05Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Charlemagne ? That’s 9th century, not 13th. 400 years can make a bit of a difference :). Oops! While I was looking around, I transposed “13th century” to “high medieval” to “medieval” in my head. You’re absolutely right. ---
**Author:** ![SirRay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@SirRay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SirRay)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/9 "2010-07-25T20:08:18Z")
Well, perhaps it’s too simple for your purpose, but I read “[Daily Life in Medieval Times](http://www.amazon.com/Daily-Life-Medieval-Times-Detailed/dp/1579120695)” by Frances & Joseph Gies (a compilation of 3 individual volumes I believe) and found it very interesting and informative. The “Life in A Medieval City” section focuses on Troyes, France c 1250. While Troyes is in North-Central France, the time-frame is spot-on (mid 13th century), and it does go into some detail about the home, fashion, life, relationships, business etc. The Medieval village section deals with a central English village (Elton), so that may not be as useful for your purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/10 "2010-07-25T20:41:30Z")
> [@SirRay](#): > > Well, perhaps it’s too simple for your purpose, but I read “[Daily Life in Medieval Times](http://www.amazon.com/Daily-Life-Medieval-Times-Detailed/dp/1579120695)” by Frances & Joseph Gies (a compilation of 3 individual volumes I believe) and found it very interesting and informative. > The “Life in A Medieval City” section focuses on Troyes, France c 1250. While Troyes is in North-Central France, the time-frame is spot-on (mid 13th century), and it does go into some detail about the home, fashion, life, relationships, business etc. > The Medieval village section deals with a central English village (Elton), so that may not be as useful for your purposes. The problem there is that at the time, there was a really sharp divide between Northern and Southern France - they didn’t even speak the same language. Fashion, art, architecture, traditions and lore, even laws and politics were very different “up here” and “down there”. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/11 "2010-07-25T23:00:49Z")
It’s not especially good on the sources about daily life and so may not directly help the OP, but the [Medieval Sourcebook](http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/sbook2.html) ought to be highlighted in any such thread. ---
**Author:** ![Satyagrahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Satyagrahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satyagrahi)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/12 "2010-07-25T23:34:21Z")
Good suggestions, all. Thank you, everyone! I had to slap my forehead when **Northern Piper** mentioned A Distant Mirror. I read that myself when it was first published about 30 years ago and should have brought it up to Mrs. S sooner. It’s focused on the following century and I don’t recall how much detail Ms. Tuchman gives on the Occitan region…but still. And I was a member of SCA briefly, about 35 years ago, but gave it up when I discovered they were ALL whacked out… 🙂 We’ll look into their world and I suspect I will be pleasantly surprised to discover that they’re grown a bit. Again, these are all great suggestions. If anyone else has more to add, please do. Thank you, everyone! ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/13 "2010-07-26T02:49:04Z")
when in the 13th Century? If it’s set during the the first half then a major aspect of Southern French culture of the period will be Catharism and the crusade against Catharism. (1144-1260 or so with some remnants surviving later…) I recommend “The Perfect Heresy” as a detailed but readable summary: > **[The Perfect Heresy: The Life and Death of the Cathars: Amazon.co.uk: O'Shea,...](https://www.amazon.co.uk/Perfect-Heresy-Life-Death-Cathars/dp/1861973500)** > > Buy The Perfect Heresy: The Life and Death of the Cathars Main by O'Shea, Stephen (ISBN: 9781861973504) from Amazon's Book Store. Everyday low prices and free delivery on eligible orders. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/14 "2010-07-26T05:38:21Z")
My wife is a music historian who specializes in medieval France. She says there’s not a lot of scholarship out there that’s in English and that focuses on daily life. Two books she recommends that might be helpful: _Daily Life in the Middle Ages_, by Paul B. Newman & \* A History of Private Life: Revelations of the Medieval World\*, by Georges Duby (The latter is the second volume of a multi-volume work. The first volume is about private life during the classical period.) ---
**Author:** ![Satyagrahi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f475e1/32.png) [@Satyagrahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satyagrahi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-good-sources-on-medieval-france/547954/15 "2010-07-29T01:59:23Z")
Cool. Again, thank you, everyone! 🙂