# Any governments that are communist or socialist in SCI-FI? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [April 24, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391 "2002-04-24T17:21:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Komsomol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecc23a/32.png) [@Komsomol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Komsomol)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/1 "2002-04-24T17:21:28Z")
Is there any governments that have the characteristics of communism or socialism in them? I personally believe the federation is what the USSR aspired to be but never really got to. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/2 "2002-04-24T17:27:29Z")
Tons of sci-fi novels have communist/socialist governments. Try Iain M. Banks’ “Culture” novels. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/3 "2002-04-24T17:27:35Z")
Yeah, just off the top of my head, there was a communist empire in Walter Jon William’s _Aristoi_ (among many, many other things). There was also one (IIRC) in Ursula Leguin’s _Left Hand of Darkness._ Many, many others are out there. Give me some time and my copy of the Encyclopedia of Sci-fi and I could probably list a few hundred… ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/4 "2002-04-24T17:27:38Z")
_Brave New World’s_ milieu seems to be a technocratic socialist state. ---
**Author:** ![AndrewL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AndrewL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndrewL)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/5 "2002-04-24T17:28:59Z")
On [stardestroyer.net](http://stardestroyer.net) there is an essay about why the Federation government of ST:TNG is communist. Be warned the author is heavily anti-communist - quite sensibly IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/6 "2002-04-24T17:40:02Z")
The moon of Annares, in LeGuin’s “The Disposessed” is. If you read, “A Short History of the Future”, one of the governments is. In Asimov’s Robot Novels (esp. evident in “The Caves of Steel”), Earth sort of is. It’s actually not an uncommon form of government in science fiction, either in its “autonomous independent communities who share all they own” form, or “large centrally planned and organized bureaucratic welfare state” form. ---
**Author:** ![Legomancer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/779978/32.png) [@Legomancer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Legomancer)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/7 "2002-04-24T17:44:57Z")
The Borg? ---
**Author:** ![Komsomol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecc23a/32.png) [@Komsomol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Komsomol)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/8 "2002-04-24T17:53:42Z")
Do the Narn have a socialist government? ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/9 "2002-04-24T17:58:24Z")
Another **Komsomol** thread about communist societies - soon we’ll have to compile them. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bordelond \* > \*\*_Brave New World’s_ milieu seems to be a technocratic socialist state. \*\* One edition of the novel _We_ by Yevgeny Zamyatin includes an essay on BNW that states Huxley’s World State as extremely capitalist. It makes more sense to me, if you look at the World State’s Ford worship and the fact that the State’s citizens are encouraged to consume as much as possible. Said novel I find interesting (it was written in the 20s and influenced both Huxley and Orwell). Interestingly, Zamyatin himself participated in the October Revolution, but soon started to disagree with Lenin’s policy, whose system isn’t depicted too positive in his book. He left the USSR and was branded a counterrevolutionary in official Soviet propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/10 "2002-04-24T18:15:02Z")
Norman Spinrad’s _Russian Spring_ actually postulated that the Soviet Union would prosper with persitroika and would eventually surpass the U.S. as a world power. Unfortunately, the book came out two months \*_after_ the attempted coup against Gorbachov, and the paperback a year later, long after the Soviet Union was no more. ---
**Author:** ![Shortie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecd19e/32.png) [@Shortie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shortie)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/11 "2002-04-24T19:58:31Z")
The Federation is arguable, sometimes they make comments about how primitive money is, and how everyone gets whatever they should need, but on DS9 they don’t have a problem with paying. The Culture doesn’t really have a government, and is perfectly prepared to re-create money (or the equivalent) when demand should exceed supply (like the concert in _Look to Windward_), normally everyone has everything the want because there are no practical limitations on doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/12 "2002-04-24T20:50:19Z")
What about _Clockwork Orange?_ ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Straight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dec6dc/32.png) [@Enola\_Straight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Straight)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/13 "2002-04-25T01:37:24Z")
Indeed. The Federation is anti-money, anti-religeon, anti-independence… I’m certain those in Starfleet Command expect the entire galaxy to one day be a unified nation…a United Federal Galaxy. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/14 "2002-04-25T06:10:49Z")
Yeah, the Federation is communist… but Star Trek fans prefer to say that they’re “enlightened”. 😃 And the Culture isn’t very communist… they just have a system where no government is needed. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/15 "2002-04-25T06:24:57Z")
Here is a classic from the 50’s [And Then There Were None](http://www.abelard.org/e-f-russell.htm) by Eric Frank Russell. The entire novella I think it was is on line. I haven’t read the story for about 25 years, but still remember it vividly. Don’t know if it’s quite what you’re looking for but probably. ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/16 "2002-04-25T06:55:45Z")
It’s been a while since I read it, but isn’t the newly independent Looney (Lunar) government socialist in The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress? ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/17 "2002-04-25T11:30:51Z")
I kinda liked the socialist goverments of the core worlds of the “Interstellar Confederacy” (Or ConFed) in _Albedo_, mostly because it had a very reasonable background of how it came to be. It also seemed to integrate capatilistic elements wholey into a socialistic government, and democratic elements as well (I don’t remember exactly), but were mostly due to the fact that robotic manufacturing had more or less eliminated the -need- for most jobs, and the remaining were easily filled by the bit of the population that wanted to work for some extra money and purchasing power. Wouldn’t work well at all in the modern-day real world, but it worked fine in that one, with the differences in tech and social outlook. The background of all the other governments, ranging the whole range from socialist to capitalist, etc, also seemed to make a lot of sense. There was no “perfect” government, just ones that best suited each planet’s current state of development. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/18 "2002-04-25T11:33:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Joe\_Cool \* > \*\*It’s been a while since I read it, but isn’t the newly independent Looney (Lunar) government socialist in The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress? \*\* Nope, the Earth would probably have some sort of socialist government. On the earth you don’t have any calorie limits, you have to buy your own air, buy your own water, buy you own education, and well, you pretty much gotta buy anything that is useful. Doesn’t sound very socialist to me. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/19 "2002-04-25T11:54:52Z")
People who don’t think the Culture is communist might want to (re)read Banks’ novella _The State of the Art_, which is quite explicit on the subject. Just a suggestion. ---
**Author:** ![GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@GSV\_Consolation\_of\_Dreams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GSV_Consolation_of_Dreams)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391/20 "2002-04-25T11:59:43Z")
Don’t forget [Ken MacCleod](http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index%3Dbooks-uk%26field-author%3DMacLeod%2C%20Ken/026-3376675-1132419) He’s a friend of Banks’ and has similar politics, although his futuristic commies are rather different to Banks’. He also has a much more negative view of Artificial Intelligences. Pretty good reads though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-governments-that-are-communist-or-socialist-in-sci-fi/105391.md?page=2)