# Any Honor Harrington fans? At All Costs **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 3, 2005, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229 "2005-11-03T02:56:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/41 "2005-11-04T01:51:40Z")
You definitely want to start with _On Basilisk Station_. Some of the plots that start there reach a climax during _Field of Dishonor_. I wouldn’t recommend reading the series in anything but published order, you would easily miss to much and probably get really confused. **DSYoungEsq** , as _xtisme_ said, the direction of the series is changing. And this is not actually a new idea. Weber has been planning on it for quite a while, and dropping hints in the information in the back of the earlier books. The only question has been, how will he bring it about. And I think we are starting to see that now. Lok ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/42 "2005-11-04T21:57:39Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > You definitely want to start with _On Basilisk Station_. Some of the plots that start there reach a climax during _Field of Dishonor_. I wouldn’t recommend reading the series in anything but published order, you would easily miss to much and probably get really confused. > > **DSYoungEsq** , as _xtisme_ said, the direction of the series is changing. And this is not actually a new idea. Weber has been planning on it for quite a while, and dropping hints in the information in the back of the earlier books. The only question has been, how will he bring it about. And I think we are starting to see that now. > > Lok I shall keep an open mind, but I should mention that the last two tomes in the series have been a serious slog, rather than the quite fun, action-packed efforts he used to write. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/43 "2005-11-04T22:00:33Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > I shall keep an open mind, but I should mention that the last two tomes in the series have been a serious slog, rather than the quite fun, action-packed efforts he used to write. Well, I’ve slogged through worse myself, but you have a point. However, without spoiling things I’ll just say that those books were setting the stage for whats to come. This book is much more like the older books…lots of action (and LOTS of death…hope thats not a spoiler). Not only that the direction things are going really comes clear in this book (though as Lok said there have been hints of where things were headed even from the first book). -XT ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/44 "2005-11-05T03:24:43Z")
I think part of the reason for the long list of dead people is clearing them out, both to set up what is coming and to make way for new people to show up. Lok ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/45 "2005-11-05T03:32:29Z")
I agree but…man, some of those who died were a shock to me at least. :eek: And the baby thing was right out of left field, though seeing the book cover gave it away. Still, a rather…interesting development. I expected the marriage but not a baby. Adds another dimension to old Honor IMO. Especially when home fleet is fighting to the death to keep the Havenites at arms length from getting close enough to the planets to be a threat (of course we knew they wouldn’t bombard the planets…but the Manties didn’t). -XT ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/46 "2005-11-05T05:07:32Z")
Yeah, there were some shockers in there, but as I mentioned earlier, there are only 2 people in the series that Weber isn’t allowed to kill off. And it was certainly a real reminder that they are in a very nasty war. But I don’t think that they were really worried about Sphinx getting bombarded by the Republic. That would have triggered the Eridani Edict and nobody wants to do that. A worry about stray shots hitting yes, but not intentional bombardment. Lok ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/47 "2005-11-05T05:22:21Z")
Sure…those MDM’s are pretty inaccurate. And I don’t think everyone was as confident about the Republics intentions…I remember someone saying that this was for all the marbles so perhaps the gloves were off completely. In any case, it was a taste of things to come I think. :eek: Now I have to sit around and wait for the next book. And Webber has about 3 or 4 series going (plus collaboration with other authors on other things)…so it might be a while before I get my next Honor fix. ☹ -XT ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/48 "2005-11-05T05:24:50Z")
Wonder if the series is popular enough (and if the author is interested) to have an unabridged books on tape version come out some time. I would really like to have the whole series to listen too if they could find a really good reader. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/49 "2005-11-05T07:40:03Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually the series is headed into a completely different direction than it was before. I won’t get into that direction as you haven’t read the latest book, but its worth reading…and trust me there is a TON of room out there in where its headed. I haven’t read the latest books, so don’t confirm or deny… But I’m going to guess there’s some sort of confrontation between Manticore, Anderman, and/or Haven on one side, and the Solarian League (possibly backing Mesa) on the other. > [@](#): > > Just don’t get too attached to too many of the people, the last I heard, there are only 2 that are quaranteed to not die, and Honor isn’t one of them. MacGuiness had better be one of those two people. Anyone else dying, I can handle. Even Nimitz, provided that he dies in the same battle as Honor. And I could name several other people who, as a practical matter, probably won’t get killed (but they’re allowed to). But MacGuiness is **not allowed to die**. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/50 "2005-11-05T10:27:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Anyone else dying, I can handle. Even Nimitz, provided that he dies in the same battle as Honor. IIRC Weber’s wife has laid down the law : she _insists_ that if Honor/Nimitz die, they die together. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/51 "2005-11-05T16:16:48Z")
I won’t comment Chronos. If/when you read the book maybe reopen the thread and comment…the general trend should be pretty appearent to you by then though how it will happen is still up in the air. > [@Chronos](#): > > MacGuiness had better be one of those two people. Anyone else dying, I can handle. Even Nimitz, provided that he dies in the same battle as Honor. And I could name several other people who, as a practical matter, probably won’t get killed (but they’re allowed to). But MacGuiness is not allowed to die. I agree, though logically if Honor and Nimitz both go in some star ship battle, so will Mac (unless he isn’t along). I’d be pretty upset if ANY of those 3 die. There are a couple of others who would upset me as well…including some that have already died (Honors lover Paul for instance…as well as some I won’t name here). If either Honor or Nimitz DOES die though I fully agree…they should die together, and it should be fairly epic, going down swinging, calm, cool and collected, with heaps of enemy dead at both of their feet! > [@Der Trihs](#): > > IIRC Weber’s wife has laid down the law : she insists that if Honor/Nimitz die, they die together. GOod for her! When I write stories my wife (who edits them for me) does the same thing to me as I’m a bit heavy handed in wacking the main characters myself. If she really likes the story she basically insists that some characters are immune from death, even if I had already planned on them dieing. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/52 "2005-11-05T18:46:34Z")
The information I heard, which was a few years ago so it may have changed by now, was that David’s wife laid down the law about a couple of characters, and Nimitz was one of the them. After reading the latest, you can probably guess the other one. These days the best way to find out information about what Weber and Flint are doing is going to [Baen books](http://www.baen.com/) and joining Baen’s Bar message board. Lok ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2005, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/53 "2005-11-05T20:37:42Z")
> [@Lok](#): > > These days the best way to find out information about what Weber and Flint are doing is going to [Baen books](http://www.baen.com/) and joining Baen’s Bar message board. > > Lok I’ll chime in with another recommendation for the Bar; note that Weber himself occasionally posts there. There’s also lots of Weber/Honorverse stuff [here](http://jiltanith.thefifthimperium.com/), at Dahak’s Orbit. You can also get free ( and legal ) copies of the Baen CDs that Weber and others include with their books - at least, you can when in hasn’t been subjected to too much traffic. That’s where I got my ( electronic ) copy of AAC. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/54 "2005-11-30T08:59:48Z")
Reviving this thread here since I just finished the book, I hope nobody minds! > [@xtisme](#): > > I agree but…man, some of those who died were a shock to me at least. :eek: > > -XT I know, the body count in this book was unusually high. I haven’t seen this many regulars buy it since “In Enemy Hands” [Spoiler]Javier Giscard’s death was a real shock to me. He was the first Havenite Admiral to die in the books that both had a depth of character and was a genuinely nice guy (not to mention arguably one of the most romantic characters, what with his secret affair with the spy sent to keep an eye on him for their oppressive government who later became the President). Sent a message to me that “The gloves are off” so to speak, so I couldn’t tell who would die next. Many of the deaths that followed were regular, if somewhat peripheal characters such as McKeon and Simon Mattingly. By the final battle, I really didn’t know who would survive, and feared that such likeable characters as the cigar-chomping Tourville and the Terrible Duo would also purchase agricultural real-estate. The Battle of Manticore was just brutal to a degree that we’ve never seen in the books before. Even Buttercup wasn’t like this. Buttercup was a methodical slaughter, but this was just a massive mutual bloodletting, with fleets pounding eachother into scrap in a matter of minutes, swarms of LACs ripping eachother to shreds, entire squadrons of Battlecruisers and cruisers just disappearing in a wave of attacking LACs. And speaking of the Battle of Manticore, was anyone able to feel any sympathy at all for the hapless Admiral Chin? I mean, this is the third time Honor’s gotten the jump on the poor girl in a row. We never got to see much of her, but I don’t recall ever seeing anything that really made us LIKE her. She was just the ever-unlucky officer who could both avoid getting shot and hardly ever got promoted. And yeah, I see something major cooking with Mesa and the League, but the way Manticore and Haven have been going at it, it’ll be a small wonder if there’s anything left to go after Mesa after too long.[/spoiler] ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2005, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/55 "2005-11-30T09:32:39Z")
[spoiler]There will be plenty left. Both nations have a lot of production that will be hitting space in the next few months. In the meantime, they are both unable to really do much offensively, so they will have to wait and catch their breath. I am betting they will both be just about ready to start going at it again when Zilwicki and Cachat get back with the information about who they should really be mad at. Then things will really hit the fan. As for Chin, my bet is she is still alive. She realized what was happening just as it hit, and was already ordering a translation, so the odds are her ship was one of the ones that disappeared after the first volley. OTOH, she may have bought it, no way to tell for certain until the next book.[/spoiler] Lok ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/56 "2005-12-01T06:09:33Z")
(Aren’t conversations consisting entirely of spoiler boxes fun?) Yeah, but did you feel any positive feelings towards Chin? For some reason, I just get the feeling that she’s something of a bitch, and have never really been able to feel much for her other than some sympathy when she had that StateSec watchdog fellow riding shotgun on her flagship in Echoes of Honor. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/57 "2005-12-01T08:22:33Z")
[spoiler]Not huge amounts of sympathy or anything, but she was someone we have seen from time to time. Just that helps bring some humanity to the battle and its aftermath, besides the people we are more familiar with. Definitely a hard driving commander, but that is pretty much to be expected for someone with her history or she would not have been there. She made some mistakes and had some bad luck in here career, OTOH, she also had some good luck to survive as long as she did. IOW, she strikes me as being pretty human. Moreso than several of the Manty aristocats in the House of Lords.[/spoiler] Lok ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/58 "2005-12-01T19:11:00Z")
Its hard to have conversations strictly in spoiler boxes. Perhaps we could dispense with them from here on out? Anyone who is still reading this thread is obviously reading the spoiler boxes…or they aren’t getting much out of it. 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2005, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/59 "2005-12-01T22:39:00Z")
> [@hildea](#): > > I’ve read several of the Honor Harrington books (not all yet, so I daren’t look at the black boxes), and mostly like them, but I find it annoying that she’s so darn perfect. In _everything_. Send her through a time warp to the viking age, and she’ll wipe the deck with Olav Tryggvason in a dancing-on-the-oars-while-the-longship-is-being-rowed-contest and beat Egil Skallagrimsson in swordfighting and poetry, while navigating the peculiarities of local honour codes flawlessly. Send her to Victorian England, and she’ll kick ass in an embroidery contest. She’s best, always, and she’s always right. But how well would she do in a depth perception contest? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2005, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229/60 "2005-12-02T09:02:44Z")
> [@The Controvert](#): > > But how well would she do in a depth perception contest? 😉 Or an arm-wrestling contest with one arm tied behind her back? 😃 _is mauled by a furry buzzsaw_ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-honor-harrington-fans-at-all-costs/329229.md?page=4)