Not a problem.
I say we give xtisme a pass on that blatant flip-flop because of the stressful emotional nature of the subject involved. My sincere condolences to all of you, Qadgop, xt, and Shagnasty.
No worries. As you can see it hits different people in different ways, and until you are there you really don’t know how you’ll react. My own honest reaction is that I’d have done anything…as with many things YMMV. But its less incomprehensible than you would think when you are in the situation…which is all I was trying to convey.
I agree.
Anyway, lets talk about human supremacy…which has a much higher potential for humor.
-XT
Well thanks. Let me revise what I said to what I SHOULD have said (and what I meant to say):
“If you can still say that you wouldn’t (CONSIDER) kill(ing) to protect or save your child (including the ridiculous scenerio described) then…well, in my book you aren’t really fit to be a parent.”
With that I bid you ado…make of it what you will.
-XT
Wow! What an amazing turn of phrase…I’m totally floored. Just wow! One of the most beautiful things I have ever heard.
Quagdop, did you just make that up? It sounds too good not to have been by Shakespeare or some other great writer. I did a quick google search and turned nothing though.
I’d like to take credit for it, but I got the gist of it from Fantasy [sub]hack[/sub] author Robert Jordan (aka James Oliver Rigney, Jr.) Lews Therin Telamon, “The Dragon”, slew his wife in a fit of madness, and later lamented that “I would burn the world, and use my soul for tinder to hear her laugh again”.
I just…praised…Robert…Jordan?!
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaa!!
Hey, even hypochondriacs get sick sometimes, blind dogs can find bones too, and if you crank out a dozen 800 page novels, you’ll probably write at least one memorable line. 
Well, I promised myself I was done with this thread but…really, Jordan isn’t all THAT bad. 
I did recognize the phrase though I though Perin had said it about Faile.
-XT
TFOH, chapter 44. Rand thinking: “Not balefire. Mustn’t use that. Threatens the fabric of the Pattern. Not even for Ilyena? I would burn the world and use my soul for tinder to hear her laugh again.” Rand’s annoyed that LTT is in his head again.
I believe you…in fact, when you said Lews Therin in a subsequent post I recalled the scene in the book (though I wouldn’t have been able to say which book it was in of course…they all tend to blur together after I read them the 4th time). I thought that it was Perin who was saying it when I first read what you said. It was a very apt quote.
-XT
Quite apt, for many situations.
And now Gozu has pointed out for us the modern Shakespeare! 
Humor, yeah, yeah, let’s get back to the humor! Love that humor! Cretacians and crustacians and …
The discussion of impossible hypotheticals (would you kill a million Chinese to save your own child?) is good mental exercise, like weightlifting with your mind (although I once had a logic professor who likened it to form of private self gratification.)
I don’t think we can separate what’s best for the human race from what’s best for the planet. I mean, other than the minor skirmishes over vivisection and veganism and other earth-shoe issues, the supremacy of the human race is pretty much a done deal. If you’re a religious person, the parable of the shrewd manager (Luke 16) speaks directly to stewardship of the earth. If you’re not religious, there is a ton and a half (figuratively speaking) of emperical evidence that if we sow the wind we will reap the whirlwind (gosh, those Bible lessons do come in handy, don’t they?)
So, as I understand the original poll question: Is there a movement for human supremacy over all other considerations and/or should there be? I vote for “I don’t think so, but it’s a dang interesting question.”
I–& I think this is far more unusual–am quite the opposite. I recognize that humans are the most powerful species on this planet in this era, with some of us capable of almost god-level acts of creation & destruction. But I do not see this as conferring to human individuals any moral authority or right against molestation. Human dominion, or supremacy, is a tool for building a more beautiful world, not the end in itself.
I’m the opposite as well, though in perhaps a slightly different way.
I love myself; I love many other people; I love much of the beauty and wisdom that humans have created over the centuries. But, I love the beauty of the natural world even more. And often it seems to me as though humans are a plague or a cancer spreading over the Earth, degrading its systems and making life harder (to the point of impossibility, in some cases) for other species. Some of it is the destructive power that springs from our sentience and dominant position; some of it is our sheer ever-increasing numbers.
When such thoughts fill me, I ponder whether, if I could exterminate the human race in one fell swoop with the push of a button (cleanly, neatly, and without harming the rest of the planet), would I push that button?
The answer is very nearly “yes.” I cherish the mental picture of the Earth spinning along its way, left to its natural systems and the other flora and fauna, without our interference and intervention. A strange and interesting and beautiful place.
The only thing that gives me pause as my finger hovers over the hypothetical button? All of those domesticated animals that would suffer mightily (locked in houses or barns, slowly running out of food and water, feeling confused and fightened) if their humans suddenly vanished. (Think New Orleans on a planetary scale.) I think the only solution would be to take them out too. At least wild variations of most of them would still exist.
Owlett, if you’re a single woman, I’ma propose.
I thought there was a prohibition against wishing death on people. You just wished for me, my wife, my daughters, my family, and everyone I know to die. Yeah, it was all abstract and scuh, but you just claimed to want me dead.
You’re going to murder everyone on earth? That’s great. Just great. Now, explain why locking you up as a threat to human survival isn’t the correct response from the rest of us. You said you wanted to kill me, why shouldn’t I be able to protect myself from you using deadly force? You just pretended to have beliefs similar to a comic-book supervillain personification of evil.
Don’t take it personally? How can I NOT take it personally?
Go ahead. Take it personally. I don’t care. One day, every country on Earth will face the choice the Rwandans faced: Them or Us. And not from paranoia, but in truth. And that day is coming sooner than we’d like to think.
Given that massive cullings of the human race are going to happen sooner or later, the more moral option is sooner. A Sooner Culling (to coin a phrase) may avoid the environmental degradation of the additional years an Inevitable Culling would take to come. And, since it would act on a smaller population, it would actually mean fewer human lives cut brutally short.
Is this a devil’s advocate argument? 
I wish it were.
(You only think you hate me more than I hate myself for* believing* it.)
Me too. Though “me too” posts are frowned upon there isn’t much I could add. Put me in the “human supremacists” camp.