# Any Jack Fanciers? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 9, 2001, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-jack-fanciers/92388 "2001-11-09T07:34:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Firx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Firx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Firx)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-jack-fanciers/92388/1 "2001-11-09T07:34:40Z")
…I mean Vance-iers? I started reading Vance when I was about thirteen, and I’ve been doing so since. I’ve noticed several recent threads ([e.g.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=97689)) recommending sci-fi/fantasy books, and perused several old threads on the same topic, all with hardly a reference to the good Mr. Vance. Surely this wasn’t intentional! In an effort to offset this alarming gap, I’d like to humbly submit the following list of titles for discussion: **The Dying Earth The Lyonesse Trilogy The Demon Princes** books **Night Lamp Eyes of the Overworld Rhialto the Marvellous The Languages of Pao Blue Planet** Also, a number of Lesser Works. Particularly, I’d like to discuss the **Lyonesse Trilogy** , **The Languages of Pao** , and **The Dying Earth** , but please comment on any of Vance’s works. To start off, let’s talk about Casmir. I would say that he is one of the most developed, along with Carfilhiot(sp?), antagonistic characters in Vance’s stories. Often we come accross characters who are described in terms of their (fictional) culture, or are characterized by their grotesque qualities and little else. Casmir, I think, mainly escapes from both of these categories. Opinions? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-jack-fanciers/92388/2 "2001-11-09T08:56:54Z")
Started reading The Dying Earth over my vacation. Can’t find my copy right now, so I can’t reference specific stories or names. The short stories were pretty good, but the novels, at least the first one, featuring Cugel the Clever, got tedious. I found Cugel to be totally unappealing. I don’t mind anti-heroes, but they ought to at least be good at it. Cugel was a moron. After slogging through one novel of this individual’s uninspiring exploits, the prospect of starting a second novel was too much for me, and I gave up a few pages in. Eh, if nothing else, Dying Earth deserves kudos for providing the inspiration for Gene Wolf’s Book of the New Sun. ---
**Author:** ![mazirian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@mazirian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mazirian)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-jack-fanciers/92388/3 "2001-11-09T09:11:48Z")
Never heard of him. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-jack-fanciers/92388/4 "2001-11-09T13:45:47Z")
Vance doesn’t seem to get a fair crack of the whip these days. The Dying Earth series gets a LOT better later on. It was some of my all-time favorite banter in it. Plus the part where the sorcerer gives him the magic device that converts anything into edible food was great (e.g. you put sticks and rocks in it…you get food…which tastes like sticks and rocks). ---
**Author:** ![Firx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Firx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Firx)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2001, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-jack-fanciers/92388/5 "2001-11-09T19:13:39Z")
I must say that I think the short stories in The Dying Earth are quite good. Have you got any you particularly liked, **Miller**? As for Cugel, I suppose tastes differ, but I didn’t think he was a moron. On the other hand, I don’t think he was brilliant either, and what I most liked about the story was the dialogue. Maybe you should try Rhialto. Speaking of heroes (or, rather, antiheroes, but who’s counting?), has anyone else noticed that Vance’s male protagonists tend to be very similar from work to work? I almost want to call them bland, but the story often makes up, at least partially, for that. Perhaps that’s why I like Cugel?