# Any objectors to continental drift ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 31, 2005, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567 "2005-01-31T10:08:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/1 "2005-01-31T10:08:26Z")
I wonder if continental drift is being totally accepted or if there still are some doubting Thomases around. I remember having read some serious objections published some 35 years ago in a scientific journal, by a Russian scientist I believe. It seems he’s been run over… ---
**Author:** ![Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eada6e/32.png) [@Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_You_Big_Red_Fire_Engine)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/2 "2005-01-31T11:59:42Z")
Yes there are. I read a creation science book written by a guy who didn’t believe it. other than creation scientists, I don’t know where to look. ---
**Author:** ![SavageNarce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@SavageNarce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SavageNarce)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/3 "2005-01-31T12:02:40Z")
Well, when you can go to a place like the San Andreas Fault and mount measuring equipment on either side to actually see the drift occurring, it makes it a little hard to say it doesn’t exist. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eada6e/32.png) [@Go\_You\_Big\_Red\_Fire\_Engine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Go_You_Big_Red_Fire_Engine)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/4 "2005-01-31T12:21:43Z")
[This](http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c001.html) is pretty much what I read. References might help you. ---
**Author:** ![GeoDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eb8c5e/32.png) [@GeoDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GeoDude)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2005, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/5 "2005-01-31T14:13:35Z")
We call it “Plate Tectonics” these days, by the way. Continental Drift is archaic, referring to Wegner’s hypothesis that the contients used to be all joined (based on evidence from maps, stratigraphy, etc.) and had since moved from this original configuration. Plate Tectonics is a much more comprehensive model that encompasses Wegner’s concept of Continental Drift, joins it with Harry Hess’ model of Sea Floor Spreading, and further advances it with data from relatively new technologies such as sesimic tomography, paleomagnetism, and (better) geochronology that enables us to describe the Earth in a much more complete way than CD ever could. For instance, CD pretty much just takes you back to Pangea (assembled ~250 Ma) to the present which leads many laypersons (supporters and opponents both) to the erroneous idea that first there was Pangea, then it broke up and the new continents “drifted” to their present configuration. The full model of Plate Tectonics describes first how continents have grown with time, from esentially small island arcs in the Archean to the “true” continents we know today, and second how these smaller continents have been acting throughout history–annealing to create new, large continents, and splitting apart to create new, smaller continents–in cycles (the “Wilson Cycle”, to be more precise). (Pangea is just the most recent “supercontinent”–at least two more existed before it.) In other words, the answer to your query is “Yes, there are doubters, but none of these doubters (of Plate Tectonic theory\*) are taken seriously.” (\*There is, of course, still substantial debate on much of the exact mechnics of Plate Teconics, how/why continents break up, how/why hot spots exist, and so on. I’ll further note that not all who regect Plate Teconics are crackpots–there yet remain former Soviet geologists who remain unconvinced (PT being a UK-USA creation, after all) based on studies of Venus and the Moon, as well as old timers that still think geosynclinal theory works out perfectly well!) ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/6 "2005-02-01T11:54:01Z")
\*\*Geodude, \*\* thanks for letting me know that Continental Drift is archaic and that Plate Tectonics is replacing it although it’s less clear to the layman. I appreciate your clarification. \*\*Go You Big Red Fire Engine \*\* It seems that creationists are again everything that evolves, not only living beings. You’re all trying to convince me that continents are drifting… You didn’t have to. I do believe it’s a real. Just wanted to know about the possible existence of serious objectors. I have a certain admiration for those who dare stand against the established theories (apart from crackpots, and creationists of course). Do you by any chance know of any publications by such objectors? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/7 "2005-02-01T12:14:36Z")
One some creationist forum, I bumped into a guy called Glenn W Laird who posts under the handle of **novagaea** ; he has claimed (at various times): -That the Earth is hollow - the core having burst out of it to form the moon at some point in human history - the Pacific ocean is the hole it made on the way out. -That, despite the absence of the core, the Earth is very much larger today than it was before and that this is evidenced by the way (he claims) the continents fit together seamlessly to cover a much smaller globe. -That the expansion of the Earth occurred by means of enormous plates or layers separating along horizontal planes and sliding over one another and this is why (again, in his version of reality) an imprint of the topography of the British Isles can be found wherever you look on the surface of the Earth. He pretty much dismisses plate tectonics - the mid-ocean ridges etc are, to him, scars where things burst out of the Earth. ---
**Author:** ![Erroneous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71c47a/32.png) [@Erroneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erroneous)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/8 "2005-02-01T13:12:06Z")
S. Warren Carey was a fairly well-respected Australian geologist who was fairly relentless in promoting variations of the Expanding Earth hypothesis for about 50 years, up until his death a couple of years ago. Having read some of his stuff, I’d hesitate to call him a crackpot, since he was earnest and thorough in his presentation of ideas, and didn’t come across as having a persecution complex, or believing that there was a vast conspiracy to hide the truth. He simply thought he had found evidence that existing models were quite wrong - he seemed sincerely interested in establishing the reality and cause of the supposed anomalies he beliegved he’d found in accepted plate tectonic theory. So he could be someone you’d enjoy reading, as long as you don’t keep so open a mind as to let your brain fall out etc. etc. Incidentally, I’d love to read a detailed rebuttal to Carey’s ideas from a mainstream geologist, aimed at an interested layperson (i.e. me). His work seemed to be largely ignored, but the few rebuttals I’ve seen have been along the lines of “the very idea of an expanding earth is wrong because of x y z” (all very well, but not directly addressing Carey’s points as he wrote them, and often ignoring that he anticipated that the problem with x y z would be brought up, and had pre-emptively responded to such criticism). ---
**Author:** ![GeoDude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/eb8c5e/32.png) [@GeoDude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GeoDude)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/9 "2005-02-01T13:26:11Z")
> [@Gymnopithys](#): > > Do you by any chance know of any publications by such objectors? Here’s a sample. Note the following: all are either (1) non-peer reviewed abstracts presented at meetings, or (2) papers presented at a very specific confernce on the expanding Earth hypothesis (in 2003!), all of which would be reviewed by the expanding-Earth-friendly editors. There are dozens more (my search found 118, I think), most like these, many more in Russian. Author: St. John, V. P. ; Blake, Roger Series/Source/Book Author: McPhie, Jocelyn; McGoldrick, Peter ; editor; editor Author Affiliation(s): University of Melbourne, School of Earth Sciences, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia; University of Tasmania, School of Earth Sciences, Hobart, Tasmania, Australia Title: A mechanism for Earth and planetary expansion Series/Source: Dynamic Earth; past, present and future Abstracts - Geological Society of Australia 73 (2004): 188 Publisher: Host Item Publisher: Geological Society of Australia, Sydney, N.S.W., Australia Country of Publication: Australia Author: Vassiliev, Boris Series/Source/Book Author: Anonymous Author Affiliation(s): Pacific Oceanological Institute, Vladivostok, Russian Federation Title: Some fundamental problems of the Earth’s structure and evolution Series/Source: Brazil 2000; 31st international geological congress; abstract volume International Geological Congress, Abstracts = Congres Geologique International, Resumes 31 (200008) unpaginated Publisher: Host Item Publisher: [International Geological Congress], [location varies], International Country of Publication: International Author: Ufimtsev, G. F. Series/Source/Book Author: Anonymous Author Affiliation(s): Institute of Earth Crust, Irkutsk, Russian Federation Title: The anisotropic expansional-compressional Earth; evidences from a global morphotectonics Series/Source: 30th international geological congress; abstracts International Geological Congress, Abstracts = Congres Geologique International, Resumes 30 (1996): 336 Publisher: Host Item Publisher: [International Geological Congress], [location varies], International Country of Publication: International Author: Scalera, Giancarlo Series/Source/Book Author: Scalera, Giancarlo; Jacob, Karl-Heinz ; editor; editor Author Affiliation(s): Istituto Nazionale di Geofisica e Vulcanologia, Rome, Italy; Istituto Nazionale di Geofisica e Vulcanologia, Rome, Italy; Technical University Berlin, Federal Republic of Germany Title: Bibliographical sources for the expanding Earth Series/Source: Enriched: Why expanding Earth? A book in honour of Ott Christoph Hilgenbert; proceedings of the Lautenthal colloquium Proceedings - Lautenthaler Montanistisches Colloquium 3 (2003): 419-421 Publisher: Host Item Publisher: INGV (Istituto Nazionale di Geofisica e Vulcanologia), Rome, Italy Country of Publication: Italy Author: Pickford, Martin Series/Source/Book Author: Scalera, Giancarlo; Jacob, Karl-Heinz ; editor; editor Author Affiliation(s): Laboratoire de Paleontologie, Paris, France; Istituto Nazionale di Geofisica e Vulcanologia, Rome, Italy; Technical University Berlin, Federal Republic of Germany Title: The expanding Earth hypothesis; a challenge to plate tectonics Series/Source: Enriched: Why expanding Earth? A book in honour of Ott Christoph Hilgenbert; proceedings of the Lautenthal colloquium Proceedings - Lautenthaler Montanistisches Colloquium 3 (2003): 233-242 Publisher: Host Item Publisher: INGV (Istituto Nazionale di Geofisica e Vulcanologia), Rome, Italy Country of Publication: Italy ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/10 "2005-02-01T13:35:59Z")
Object? Do I _object!!!_ Every morning when I get up I find my continent has slid a few more millionths of a centimeter. I’m doing everything I can to stop it, I tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/11 "2005-02-01T13:43:35Z")
> [@SavageNarce](#): > > Well, when you can go to a place like the San Andreas Fault and mount measuring equipment on either side to actually see the drift occurring, it makes it a little hard to say it doesn’t exist. 😉 Just curious…what did scientists think was the explanation for such formations (obvious faults/rifts) before plate tectonics was seriously proposed? Were faults recognized and land known to move, but no one put 2 & 2 together? ---
**Author:** ![Erroneous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/71c47a/32.png) [@Erroneous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erroneous)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/12 "2005-02-01T13:46:33Z")
Here’s a pro-expanding earth article from 2003. McCarthy, Dennis (2003). ‘The trans-Pacific zipper effect: disjunct sister taxa and matching geological outlines that link the Pacific margins’. Journal of Biogeography, 30, 1545–1561. > [@](#): > > **Abstract** > > \*\*Aim \*\* > To combine analyses of trans-Pacific sister taxa with geological evidence in order > to test the hypothesis of the existence of a Panthalassa superocean. > > **Location** > The study is concerned with taxa, both fossil and extant, from East Asia, > Australia, New Zealand, South America and North America. > > \*\*Methods \*\* > Phylogenetic and distributional analyses of trans-Pacific biota were integrated > with geological evidence from the Pacific and circum-Pacific regions. > > \*\*Results \*\* > A series of recent biogeographical analyses delineates a zipper-like system of > sister areas running up both margins of the Pacific, with each section of western North > and South America corresponding to a particular section from East Asia/Australia/New > Zealand. These sister areas coincide neatly with a jigsaw-like fit provided by the > matching Mesozoic coastlines that bracket the Pacific. > > \*\*Main conclusions \*\* > The young age (\<200 Myr) of oceanic crust, the matching Mesozoic > circum-Pacific outlines, and a corresponding system of interlocking biogeographical > sister areas provide three independent avenues of support for a closed Pacific in the > Upper Triassic–Lower Jurassic. The hypothesis of the existence and subsequent subduction > of the pre-Pacific superocean Panthalassa is not only unnecessary, it conflicts > with this evidence. Panthalassa-based paleomaps necessitate the invention of dozens of > additional hypotheses of species-dependent, trans-oceanic dispersal events, often involving > narrow-range taxa of notoriously limited vagility, in order to explain repeated > examples of the same biogeographical pattern. Removing the vanished-superocean > hypothesis reunites both the matching geological outlines and all the disjunct sister taxa. > In brief, what appears to be a multi-era tangle of convoluted, trans-oceanic distributions > on Panthalassa-based paleomaps is actually a relatively simple biogeographical pattern > that is explainable by a single vicariant event: the opening and expansion of the Pacific. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Zagna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@El\_Zagna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Zagna)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/13 "2005-02-01T13:59:49Z")
El Zagna has found his new cause! ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/14 "2005-02-01T14:17:25Z")
Zagna – a friend has a “Reunite Gondwanaland!” bumper sticker. Ya’ll have a movement, now. ---
**Author:** ![RAWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@RAWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RAWDuke)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/15 "2005-02-01T15:10:03Z")
> [@El Zagna](#): > > El Zagna has found his new cause! Join the Society! [Society to Prevent Plate Techtonics](http://www.wimble.org/SoPrePlaTec/preventionhome.html) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/16 "2005-02-01T18:14:10Z")
Yeah, but the objection is always overruled. ---
**Author:** ![lno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a8b319/32.png) [@lno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lno)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/17 "2005-02-01T18:42:15Z")
> [@El Zagna](#): > > El Zagna has found his new cause! You laugh, but I’m currently wearing a “STOP PLATE TECTONICS” t-shirt. ---
**Author:** ![35340](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/8baadc/32.png) [@35340](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/35340)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/18 "2005-02-01T20:34:39Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Zagna – a friend has a “Reunite Gondwanaland!” bumper sticker. Ya’ll have a movement, now. Um, isn’t that contrary? ---
**Author:** ![Podkayne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Podkayne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Podkayne)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/19 "2005-02-01T20:43:12Z")
> [@Mynn](#): > > Um, isn’t that contrary? It’s a movement to be stationary! ---
**Author:** ![Gymnopithys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/fbc32d/32.png) [@Gymnopithys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gymnopithys)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567/20 "2005-02-01T20:49:58Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Object? Do I _object!!!_ > > Every morning when I get up I find my continent has slid a few more millionths of a centimeter. > > I’m doing everything I can to stop it, I tell you. You just made me aware that the little jolt I felt every morning at 3:47 AM (I’m hypersensitive) was due to plate tectonics: the Alps are being uplifted ! :smack: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-objectors-to-continental-drift/287567.md?page=2)