Any opinions on Whatsapp?

In My Humble Opinion
41

I have no idea – I’m not part of their data security team. Facebook is in trouble right now because they gave user information to that shady data collection firm.

I think you’re missing my point, though. My point was that WhatsApp is the only messaging app that I’ve used that requires me to give them access to all of my contacts in order to use it (at least, the only one I’m aware of). I understand why they require that, but I don’t like it. The OP asked whether there is anything wrong with WhatsApp. I think that’s a problem, when compared to other messaging platforms. You feel differently. It’s all good.

42

It seems like the people who actually use WhatsApp haven’t experienced problems with it. Your objections seem to be based on hypothetical problems, not to mention a good deal of paranoia.

WhatsApp doesn’t force you to watch ads (at least in my experience). Nor have I received anything unwanted via a contact.

Your objections seem to be based on what Facebook does, rather than WhatsApp itself. If you feel that strongly, you could just stop using Facebook.

43

I do remember now that WhatsApp was greedy with phone numbers, and I believe required one to sign up. I believe I gave it my Google Voice number rather than my real number, but any app can probably access your mobile phone number if you allow that permission.

44

I didn’t like the dozen and half permissions it wanted but my friend is traveling to Europe and this is the only way we can stay in contact so given what I read here i went ahead and installed it. I appreciate everyone’s input and would enjoy to see the discussion continue. Thanks!

45

It’s certainly not the only way - there are different apps that do the same thing but without the security problems.

46

I haven’t yet seen any evidence of any security “problems” with WhatsApp.

47

Requiring access to all of one’s contacts is a security problem, even if you don’t feel that way personally.

Wickr Me is an open source, secure alternative that doesn’t harvest user data. There are other alternatives too, of course.

48

Also, apparently, Telegram. The problem with these other systems is that you have to have a network of people who use them. If everyone in Indonesia is on WhatsApp, it doesn’t do much good to be the only one on Wickr Me or Telegram, even if they don’t ask for your contacts. That’s why I’d love to have a master messenger that can talk WhatsApp’s language, Messenger’s, Telegram’s, SMS, Hangouts, GroupMe, Skype, Viber, etc., etc.

Colibri, my comment about watching ads was in response to a poster who said they would rather sell their data than be forced to watch an ad. I was commenting that the other messaging systems that I use don’t force me to watch ads either. My only real complaint with WhatsApp (since I’ve had a grand total of three conversations on it, when the other person reached out to me) is the hoovering up of all my contact information. That is my problem with it. Saying that other users haven’t experienced problems is true, as far as that goes – if they have no problem giving all their contact info to Facebook and WhatsApp, then the app presents no problems.

49

That problem was technically solved years ago with open messaging and VOIP protocols like XMPP and SIP. They provide a common interface for chat and voice/videoconferencing systems, allowing them to share contacts and to interoperate. You can create an account on one service provider, and then use an application of your choice to send and receive calls and messages from it, and it doesn’t matter whether the other party is using the same service provider or the same application. If you don’t like the user interface of the application you’re using, you can seamlessly switch to a different one. There are even standards and conventions for end-to-end encryption of the data streams.

Unfortunately, supporting such open protocols is not part of the business model of many messaging app developers, who would prefer to lock you and your contacts into a walled garden. A few of these companies (Facebook being a notable example) have even deliberately subverted these Internet standards by making a big deal about supporting them, and then abruptly switching to a closed protocol once their user base reaches a certain size. The users don’t gain any new features or functionality, but the service operator may be better able to exploit its captive audience.

50

Proprietary software such as WhatsApp doesn’t give you the irrevocable freedom to run it for any purpose, to study how it works, to make arbitrary modifications to how it works, and to redistribute it in its original or modified form.

The first of these freedoms is important for all users. You may have already realized this if you ever had a favourite app that stopped working because the publisher forced you to “upgrade” to a newer version that turned out to be worse. To give an example relevant to the present discussion, Microsoft recently did this with Skype. Many people love the old 4.x series and hate the redesigned version. But it’s no longer possible to run Skype 4.x; even if you find and install an old version, it will refuse to run or at least refuse to make calls. Microsoft has taken away your freedom to use the software.

Though you might not want to directly exercise the other three freedoms yourself (particularly if you’re not a programmer), you benefit when the community does. When programmers at large have access to an app’s source code, they can inspect its behaviour and report on bugs, security flaws, and privacy issues. In many cases they can actually fix these problems and submit these improvements to the original publishers, or release the improved version themselves if the original publisher is unable or unwilling to do so. When impartial programmers do not have the freedom to study a program’s internals, users have no independent corroboration about the publishers’ claims about its stability, security, and privacy.

51

Phone numbers themselves might not be so secret, but your own personal little black book might be something you would rather keep to yourself. If a phone number is in a list that you curate, it can be reasonably presumed that you know and are in contact with the owner. If you were, say, a sales manager at a large company, you would not want your list of customers’ and leads’ phone numbers to be exposed to the competition so that they could poach them. Giving a social network or messaging service your address book means trusting that they will never deliberately misuse or inadvertently leak them. Unfortunately, massive data breaches even at very large companies have been happening with alarming regularity.

52

Just to be clear, I deserve neither credit nor blame for avoiding FB for any grand moral reasons. When I say I avoid FB, I mean exactly that - I never go to anyone’s FB pages. The fact they own WhatsApp is irrelevant to my comment.

53

One opinion:
The billionaire co-founder of WhatsApp, which Facebook acquired for $19 billion, just tweeted ‘deletefacebook’

54

They require access to your contacts so that they can link you with all the other people who are using Whatsapp. The phone number is the unique identifier used to make the connection. So, when you open your contacts you can just click on the Whatsapp icon (under the ‘Connected Via’ row, where you’ll see a Google icon and potentially many other app connection icons) and text or call the person.

55

FWIW I understand there are other apps but that is the one she uses so it was either install that or not. Also, she told me several of her friends overseas had bailed on WhatsApp when Facebook bought them but almost all of them came back eventually. It is essentially ubiquitous outside the US (which is why Faceboook bought it).

56

Thanks, I get how it works. I was told to use WhatsApp by my son’s teacher so she could communicate with the various parents while on a class trip overseas. So, I installed it. I know her phone number, since she sent it to everyone. Does WhatsApp let me start a conversation based on her phone number? No, it doesn’t. I literally cannot initiate a conversation unless I give it access to all of my contacts.

Does my SMS app require a phone number in my contacts in order to start a conversation? No. Does GroupMe require it? No. Does Skype? No. WhatsApp requires access to all of my contacts in order for me to initiate a conversation with another WhatsApp user whose number I know.

I was able to connect with her. I asked her to reach out to me in WhatsApp, and now we have an open conversation.

That is my issue with WhatsApp. I feel like I’ve been really clear about my issue with it – it requires access to all of my contacts in order for me to use it properly. That’s my issue, and that’s why I won’t use it unless I have to. Those of you who don’t mind opening up your contacts list to WhatsApp and Facebook are welcome to use it.

57

If you’re going to use it to communicate with one person, then you can block it from your contacts and have her reach out to use to start the conversation thread. That worked for me.

58

Okay, I’ve read the entire thread, and I’m not unaware of issues like identity theft. Can someone explain - as if I’m a very stupid child, or a very ancient little old lady - just why in hell I should share these objections to a messenger app?

Re-reading again, I’m left with mostly this:

… and I need someone to explain - clearly and without hyperbole or “OMG what if” scaremongering - why that’s a problem.

Okay, let’s say I’m roughly an average U.S. citoyen, and so perhaps I have phone contacts for:

… my family (some of whom might be psychopaths, I dunno) and my college buddies (who may or may not actually remember my face or name) and a few work colleagues (who might be up to some shady shit, but I wouldn’t know, we just sit near each other & bitch about the boss or occasionally coordinate happy hour or a game of croquet after work) and my pot hookup (let’s say I’m in a non-legal state) plus a couple gals from the knitting club, a few neighbors I met via NextDoor app, some rando who replied to a Craigslist ad that one time, my boyfriend, my other boyfriend, my ex-girlfriend (hey, ya never know ammirite) and my cousin’s roommate who wants to sell a car I’d be interested in buying.

So now this app has access to all their info as I’ve entered it into my contacts list. Perhaps I used their IRL names; perhaps I only know their party nickname: perhaps everyone is a variation of “Mrs. McBitchyFace123 Bad Dye Job.” (What, that’s not how you store your mother’s contact info?) Maybe my pot hookup is “WeedGuy CheapButCrappy” or maybe he’s “John Smith, Jr.” in my contact list. My neighbor could be stored as “Weird Fucko Shared Driveway” or he may also be “John Smith, Jr.” just because I know two people with the same name.

Now what? So I wanna use WhatsApp and I have to give them permission to access the info I stored on all those exes, neighbors, losers, family members, random semi-strangers, boyfriends, etc. What bad shit comes from that?

59

I don’t know that any specific bad stuff will happen. Millions of people use WhatsApp and are doing fine.

I don’t think I’ve done OMG What If scaremongering, so I’m not sure why you’re using my post as an example. I understand that privacy is a joke in the modern age. However, I want to be able to choose who I share data with. As an Android user, I’ve sold my soul to Google, and I get that. They know where I go, all of my contacts, where I’ve eaten, practically everything about me. I don’t want Apple or Facebook or Microsoft to also have all of that information, so I’ve tried to avoid selling my soul to those companies as much as possible. If you want to share your info with Facebook, Google, Microsoft, whoever, that’s fine.

My issue with WhatsApp is that they’ve hampered the app to make it almost unusable unless you share your contacts. Skype (Microsoft) doesn’t do that, neither does LinkedIn, GroupMe, etc. I understand why they do it – they make money using and selling your personal information, just like Google and Microsoft do.

To answer your question more directly, about what could happen? I guess you’ll get highly targeted ads, friend suggestions, and so on, unless they mishandle your data. If they do that, maybe spear fishing e-mails which can lead to hacks and possible identity theft, I suppose, if you’re not careful. I’m not scaremongering – these are things that happen when someone’s personal information is in the wrong hands. I don’t know of any instance where this has happened to WhatsApp, but Facebook is in trouble right now for selling personal information which was then misused by Cambridge Analytica, and, of course, one of the credit agencies recently screwed up big time.

60

Well, reading this article, I found a disturbingly relevant comment under it: