There are no hard and fast test for Aspergers. It’s a spectrum disorder and it’s not necessary for to have every single symptom listed in the DSM to be diagnosed.
Depending on what practitioner you see, it’s possible to be diagnosed as an adult. Tony Attwood FE will diagnose an adult based on their narrative about their childhood and the symptoms they display. I know that if Mr P were to see Attwood, he’d come home with the label but the question really is what difference would the label make?
There’s a fair few adults on the Asperger lists who are self-diagnosed. I’m uncomfortable with that personally. Asperger traits are not all that uncommon in supposedly NT people. But then I don’t buy into the concept of people with Aspergers being a new evolutionary steps or that it is OK to excuse bad behaviour on the grounds of Aspergers. When I look at the traits which my older son was diagnosed by, well, we can see he came by them honestly from me and Mr P. I’m fairly certain that I would have been diagnosed as a child but as an adult, I’ve got social skills and theory of mind.
I would seek a diagnosis if my daily life were impaired by what I thought to be Aspergers or if it would lead to effective treatment such as social skills training which I wanted. Attwood has commented that most people with Aspergers are bad at being children but are OK as adults, if a little eccentric. There’s a lot of people out there making a lot of money and careerbuilding on the concept of Aspergers and I tend to be a bit cynical myself.
Grandin’s books are excellent but I found Donna Williams’s books to be heartrendingly sad.
Disclaimer: One of my job titles is “Autism/Aspergers Specialist”.
I think Primaflora had some good comments. Since I share some of those opinions, and because being in this thread would be like going to work, I’m staying out.
But here’s a link that may be of interest, that I didn’t see on a quick run through on the thread. Just remember, it isn’t a scientific thing.
Indeed this ins’t about victomhood. This is about finally being told after thirtysome years why you are different, that it isn’t just something you can “change if you really tried.” It is about being wired differently than the rest of the population.
Incidently, somebody asked about therapy. That is what it is all about. Coming to realize that there are somethings you are never going to change. Then instead of beating your head against that wall you start finding ways to mitigate those inate differences.
BTW: there is no increase in Aspergers. There is simply a diagnosis now. If you look back at certain famous people in history you see they showed all of the symptoms. The one that comes to mind right off is Issac Newton. It stands to reason that for every famous Aspie in times past there were a great number who were obsucre.
Aspies tend to have average or above average intellegence. I spent most of my time in school bored out of my skull. I also had no idea how to relate to the teacher or any of the students. This may be true of your student as well.
It doesn’t sound to me like he is lying either. The series of events probably went something like this.
1 Sitting in class, gets bored with the material and so does something else. (This may seem like outre behavior to you but it makes perfect logical sense if you don’t recognise the social “rules” for a classroom)
2 The lecture turns to something important but he has already tuned out.
3 He was there present in the classroom the whole time.
4 Given #3 it is obvious that he was there for the lecture.
5 He doesn’t remember it.
6 Conclution - you didn’t give it.
Add to this the fact that he is probably very comfortable reading and very uncomfortable interacting, even passivly, in the classroom and I think you have your answer.
I guess my question would be what is your goal with this student? If it is to teach the subject matter then I would suggest giving him a copy of your notes to read during class. If it is to learn to take notes then you need to have a better reason than, because I said so. Note taking is a very valuable skill. He may need to be shown that it isn’t just writing down what the teacher says, but rather a way of organizing his own thoughts on the subject. If you show him the value of the activity then he is more likely to participate. Right now he probably sees no benefit to himself in joining in and so doesn’t.
This is a classic Aspie trait. We often see mistakes as symptoms. This mistake is not an isolated incident but one in a long series of related missteps that have a cumulative effect.
I have a 10yr old son with Asperger’s syndrome and this is very much the case with him. In fact as he moves into the years where the importance of the peer group increases, his pain and despair over not being able to find a niche increases as well. He is also a highly gifted boy and on more than one occasion has stated he would trade his academic skills for a friend. It’s heart breaking.
I think with a lot AS kids the rejection by their peers because of their lack of social skills leads to the mood and anxiety disorders many adults with AS suffer from. I have read online where self diagnosed adults state they have no interest in making friendships, however I believe for many AS kids this is not the case, rather it is the lack of the ability to do so that leads to so a withdrawal from social contact.
I replied to this yesterday but it seems to have become hamster chow. So here it is again.
It is often more that the Aspie has failed to recognize that the social action has occurred.
Absolutely
There are casual social situations?
If you are at a largish gathering with an Aspie, please, please, please, start a conversation ABOUT something. I have been told in management training that if you ask a neuro-typical person, “So, do you have any kids?” they will babble on for a half an hour about their children. (Why they would do this is a mystery, but it appears there have been real world examples of this happening.) If you ask an Aspie with kids this same question the answer will be, “yes.” Small talk is not an option. You will confuse the Aspie no end. They will end up standing there thinking, “Why is this person asking me all these unrelated and irrelevant questions?” Instead pose a hypothetical question about how the world works. But beware of being trapped there until the answer is derived.
Forcing eye contact is generally not considered to be a good thing with Asperger’s children, and can cause a lot of distress. My son’s IEP has other strategies in place to indicate he is paying attention - his body position has to be facing the teacher and he looks at the teachers mouth, or her shoulder. If the child does not make eye contact naturally - don’t force it, find other strategies.
Is that an Aspie thing? I have always had that with dogs, cats and (oddly enough) babies. My wife calls me the Baby Whisperer because of the rapore I immediately develop with the little ones. I haven’t been around horses enough to know but this intreagues me. I have heard Jimmy Stewart talk about the connection he had with the horse he used in movies for years. Always made me want to the same thing but I always assumed it was a one-in-a-million sort of relationship.
I had to chuckle, as I was doing just that as I read this. My other “movement” thing is tensing up my neck muscles to make my head vibrate, though I seem to have grown out of that one somewhat; it’s become rarer over the past few years.
I heavily reflect the physical/pressure traits. I absolutely can’t tolerate thing like having something sticky on my skin. I beat my head and the heel of my right hand against hard objects in a mono-rhythmic manner (just thudthudthud once every half second or so). Luckily, I’m aware enough to rarely do the head thing in front of people, as it tends to freak them out.
I read very early, didn’t talk until nearly five (at which point it was pretty much fully-formed sentences, though–also have a slight lisp and sibilant-S, but don’t think that’s related to Asperger’s).
The social stuff, I’m still helpless a lot of the time. I was hopeless until I was about 20, at which point I was seriously depressed and resolved to simply force myself to start socializing, dating, etc. Still can’t have a serious friendship with a person unless I’ve known them, on a daily basis, for at least a year or more. Basically need to trust that they’re non-threatening.
Obsessive behaviors abound—I had to learn how to sew in junior high so I could replace buttons on my shirts. I grind my knuckles on the little knot of thread on the backside of the button until the string wears through (and my knuckles bleed). Also use to be a cutter (not sure how common that is with A., or if it’s related to other things–I’ve also been diagnosed bipolar, so it’s hard to tell what’s what sometimes), geometric patterns and words and symbols on my upper arms. Have to touch things constantly–run my fingers along the wall when I’m walking down the hallway, etc. I tend to be tense at work because I concsciously work on restraining this stuff.
I’m extremely, extremely visual, as others have noted, although, like Priceguy, this is mitigated with a very poor real-world spatial sense. I can remember taking those standardized tests in school, like the California Achievement test and such–I’d ace the entire thing except the spatial section. You know the ones, where you have to look at an unfolded cube with various colored sides and figure out what it would look like whole, things like that. On the other hand, my memories are always visual–I can’t remember what somebody said to me five minutes later, but 20 years past I’ll have a picture in my mind of them saying it to me, what was on the sign in the window behind them, that sort of thing. I have these memories going back to when I was about two, apparently, going by scenes I’ve described to my mother that she’s identified (a trip to a petting zoo, for example).
Wow, this is getting long. That’s enough. I’d also second the suggestion about, when possible, writing out instructions. I know I have an absolutely awful time trying to follow spoken instructions, even immediately after they’re given. But once I do it, I’ll be able to repeat it without any assistance forever and ever, amen.
It’s f unny. I never forget a face, but until I’ve seen a person every day for months I can have trouble connecting it with anything. I’ll think, “I know that face,” but have absolutely no other information. Sometimes it’s not too bad, for example (when I was younger) if it was a teacher, I’d know they were they teacher by environmental clues, and the disconnect would be functionally equivalent, to the outside world, to just forgetting a name.
But, that remembering has to be triggered. After a week apart, I can’t remember what even my parents or sisters look like without a trigger (their faces, that is–I still remember hair color and such). When I was younger I used to love to draw, and would do very accurate portraits when i was looking at a person, or a picture… but if I was drawing from my imagination, the faces would be blank. I’d do a street scene, for example, with detailed buildings (I can relate to those with the interest in architecture), cars, people with well-defined bodies… but blank faces. Used to creep out my dad (my mother, an artist herself, just found it interesting).
Also, a suggestion (keep in mind this is just personal experience)–for those with Asp. children, or HFA, a musical instrument might be good if they’ve registered an interest in music as some have mentioned here. There’s a lot of comfort for me in sitting with my guitar and playing a ten-second melody, or even just thwacking a particular rhythm, over and over and over. Have no idea how “productive” it might be (or even counterproductive), but it’s better than some alternatives. shrug
That’s the same for me. Even when I’m trying to imagine someone I’ve met before. It’s also how I try to remember people so I don’t walk straight past them without recognising them, or have someone start talking to me and not recognise them. So when I meet someone I’ll make a mental note e.g “Jess is the one with the nose ring and a mole on the neck.”
After I’ve met people a few times though, I can remember their faces in every tiny detail. It’s still more memorising than recognition, because when I see someone I’ll look at the features and remember who has them. Usually they’ve spoken by then too, which helps a lot.
Also the same for me, except for the big meat robot part. It’s sort of hard to explain but when I’ve tuned out of the other person they almost appear 2D. It’s weird. But I also tune people out on the phone. Last night someone rang me - telephones are not my friend in the first place - and quite frankly, talked a bit long. I was tired and not feeling that well so that probably wasn’t really that long though. I was looking at some stuff I had on the floor (I’m moving soon) and mentally packing a box. I’d already figured out which box I should use, which items should go in and their configuration when I heard my name spoken sharply, then “You’re not very good at multitasking, are you?”
It’s true, I hadn’t heard a word they were saying but I had no idea it was so obvious. :smack:
It was not too long ago that I found out that the things I had to struggle so hard to do were actually easy for other people.
I have always felt like I was a collection of learned behaviors. I would learn that if the situation was “Y”, then you did “X” behavior. It would always confuse me when I missed the social cues that indicated that “X” was not appropriate.
To this day I cannot get the hang of chit-chat. It seems so pointless. I try, but it seems so forced and phony. I always answer the questions factually with as short of an answer as possible.
It is really, really great to hear everyone else’s stories. I don’t feel so out of place now that I know there are others who have gone through the same things. Directionally challenged, unable to recognize people out of context, repetitive movements (mine is making a geometric pattern with my foot, but I also had a terrible tic as a child that I still struggle with), unable to make eye contact, freeze in social situations, etc. etc. etc. All present and accounted for, sir.
I would suggest that we have some type of get-together, but we would all probably spend the whole time not talking and avoiding eye contact.
I’m not claiming I have Asperger’s, I read this thread because I have a friend of a friend who has autism and I wanted to see what his life was like… But I do want to address Rubystreak’s student.
How are his grades? Does he need to take notes like the other students in order to pass tests? If so, then my experience is defunct. But when I was in 10th grade Geometry (IB level), I read books every day in the back of the class. I knew the material backward and forward, and had no problem pairing up with other students to help them, but I had no interest in anything the teacher was going on about. She didn’t mind, because I was not disruptive, and I had the highest average in the class.
Unlike the student described, and this may be where the difference between a need for treatment and counseling, or simple anti-social behavior factors, I had no problem “faking it.” Answering questions correctly when called on, making eye-contact with the teacher. But I am concerned with how this kid is being treated… Especially the note-taking. Throughout high school, college, and graduate school, class time was for writing fiction, RPG logs, designing games, doodling. For me, it is a matter of not being an aural learner, so lecturers simply held no interest.
I think most people see the book they’re reading, up to a point. It’s like a little play in your head. But as for “thinking in pictures”, for example: “Hmm, I think I’ll go to the store today”, You will actually see yourself at the store, whereas most people will have a “voice” in there head saying “Hmm, I think I’ll go to the store today.” Like you’re talking to yourself in your head.
My son is autistic. I’m not sure if he’s HFA, but it’s not severe. His biggest problems are speach and social skills. Ever since he was diagnosed, I’ve suspected that I might be HFA. I’ve always blamed my problems on the way I grew up and the weirdness of my parents. Actually I think my father may have had Asperger’s. My husband’s brother definately has it, but doesn’t know it.
