# Any other commonly used terms originate from now defunct scientific theories ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 26, 2011, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115 "2011-01-26T23:32:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/41 "2011-01-27T20:13:11Z")
Astrology is something of a “discredited science”, but a few words relating to the personality traits associated with the planets are still in common use. The best known such word is probably _jovial_; _mercurial_ and _saturnine_ are still occasionally used too, and _martial_ has taken on a much broader meaning than just “astrologically governed by Mars.” _Venereal_ would complete the set, but somehow that one ended up with a meaning not referring to personality traits. ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/42 "2011-01-27T20:24:43Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Planet? Well, “planet” comes from a Greek word meaning “wanderer”, and that word accurately describes a property of planets, namely, that they are in motion, which stars do not (relative to their solar system). I wouldn’t include that in a least of words derived from defunct theories, since it was developed in a cosmological model that is not defunct with respect to the characteristics of planets. ---
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/43 "2011-01-27T20:25:27Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > “Sinister” from the belief that left handed people were possessed by the Devil. Has that been disproved? ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/44 "2011-01-27T20:27:04Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Well, “planet” comes from a Greek word meaning “wanderer”, and that word accurately describes a property of planets, namely, that they are in motion, which stars do not (relative to their solar system). I wouldn’t include that in a least of words derived from defunct theories, since it was developed in a cosmological model that is not defunct with respect to the characteristics of planets. Did it not presume (and I’m legitimately asking this, not being snarky) that all those shiny bits up in the sky were the same thing, and that the only difference between the stars and the planets were that the latter wandered? ---
**Author:** ![Schnitte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/schnitte/32/9033_2.png) [@Schnitte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schnitte)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/45 "2011-01-27T20:29:18Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > “Brontosaurus” remains in the popular lexicon, while the more correct “apatosaurus” does not. To me, that seems to me to be just a terminological thing. Even though the term brontosaurus was abandoned in science in favour or apatosaurus, neither word is inherently more or less correct than the other - scientists have simply adopted a naming convention. I guess this lies at the root of **Chronos** ’ rather snippy remark. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/46 "2011-01-27T20:47:18Z")
Astrology has contributed a lot of other terms to modern metaphors as well. If your “star is in the ascendant”, you’re experiencing good fortune: a reference to the astrological doctrine that the “ascendant” or “horoscopic point”, where the zodiac crosses the eastern horizon, makes a celestial body especially influential. (If your “ **evil** star is in the ascendant”, that’s not so good.) A lot of related expressions, such as being “born under a lucky star”, have similar origins. If you’re at the “zenith” or the “nadir” of your fortunes, that likewise reflects the astrological associations of the directions up and down, respectively. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/47 "2011-01-27T20:49:56Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > Well, “planet” comes from a Greek word meaning “wanderer”, and that word accurately describes a property of planets, namely, that they are in motion, which stars do not (relative to their solar system). I wouldn’t include that in a least of words derived from defunct theories, since it was developed in a cosmological model that is not defunct with respect to the characteristics of planets. Except that the “planets” at least sometimes were held to include the Sun and Moon as well as the bodies we now call planets; or at least, that the planets were grouped with the Sun and Moon as moving bodies, in contrast to the “fixed” stars. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/48 "2011-01-27T20:59:16Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Except that the “planets” at least sometimes were held to include the Sun and Moon as well as the bodies we now call planets; or at least, that the planets were grouped with the Sun and Moon as moving bodies, in contrast to the “fixed” stars. Yep, the [classical planets](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_planet). That’s why I say if they’re going to demote Pluto, they really ought to cowboy up and take out Uranus and Neptune as well, and then put the Sun and Moon back in. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/49 "2011-01-27T21:04:08Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > Yep, the [classical planets](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_planet). That’s why I say if they’re going to demote Pluto, they really ought to cowboy up and take out Uranus and Neptune as well, and then put the Sun and Moon back in. You would have to take out Earth as well, which according to classical theory was not a planet. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/50 "2011-01-27T21:22:30Z")
Personally, I think that we should have three separate terms for rockballs, gasballs, and iceballs: Sure, Pluto isn’t much like Jupiter or Earth, but then, Jupiter and Earth aren’t much like each other, either. But we’re kind of stuck with “planet”, now. And I’m not so sure that terms like “martial” and “jovial” are so much from astrology, as they are from the gods the planets were named for in the first place. Mars was the god of war regardless of what the red planet is doing, and there are plenty of other words that come directly from gods that didn’t have planets named after them. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/51 "2011-01-27T22:01:16Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > You would have to take out Earth as well, which according to classical theory was not a planet. Thanks, forgot to mention Earth - it’ll have to come out as well. Sorry Earth! ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/52 "2011-01-27T22:27:52Z")
> [@Schnitte](#): > > To me, that seems to me to be just a terminological thing. Even though the term brontosaurus was abandoned in science in favour or apatosaurus, neither word is inherently more or less correct than the other - scientists have simply adopted a naming convention. I guess this lies at the root of **Chronos** ’ rather snippy remark. No. The Brontosaurus was an adult skeleton mismatched to a juvenile head, and no such creature ever thundered across the lands. The Apatosaurus correctly matched the adult body with an adult head. It’s more than just a different name or language. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/53 "2011-01-27T22:40:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And I’m not so sure that terms like “martial” and “jovial” are so much from astrology, as they are from the gods the planets were named for in the first place. Mars was the god of war regardless of what the red planet is doing, and there are plenty of other words that come directly from gods that didn’t have planets named after them. In my defense, I took a look at the OED before I wrote the post. Here’s the run-down:[ul][li]_Jovial_ derives from an Italian word (16th c.) specifically meaning “born under the planet Jove”, which in turn derives from the Latin for “of or pertaining to Jupiter”. Whether the Latin refers to the planet or the God is unclear. The oldest citation in the OED is specifically in the astrological sense, though the earliest “like the God” sense comes only 15 years after that.[_]Mercurial: in this case, the OED’s reference to the “God-like” sense of the word predate those for the astrological sense by about 100 years. A footnote, however, admits that it is difficult to distinguish between the two senses of the word.[_]_Saturnine_: the OED does not list the “God-like” sense as a possible meaning, only the “influenced by the planet” sense.[\*]_Martial_: The weakest of the four, I’ll admit. The OED’s references have the “God-like” sense predating the “planet-influenced” sense by about 50 years. However, the “courageous & warlike” sense of the word predates both of them by about 100 years.[/ul][/li] Of course, the roots all four of these words are older than the English language, so the OED can’t possibly be the whole story. It’d be interesting to know whether the astrological attributes associated with these planets were directly drawn from the gods, whether the mythology of the gods was influenced by pre-existing astrological practices, or whether it was all of a piece. There’s probably an Ancient History Ph.D. thesis or two in it somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/54 "2011-01-27T23:22:08Z")
IME people are more likely to see falling stars than meteors. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/55 "2011-01-27T23:28:34Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > It’d be interesting to know whether the astrological attributes associated with these planets were directly drawn from the gods, whether the mythology of the gods was influenced by pre-existing astrological practices, or whether it was all of a piece. There’s probably an Ancient History Ph.D. thesis or two in it somewhere. Association of planets with specific deities was part of ancient Mesopotamian celestial divination practices, and was imitated in classical antiquity: thus Aphrodite/Venus took over from the Semitic fertility goddess Astarte/Ishtar/etc. as the deity associated with the planet we now call Venus, and Jupiter was similarly assigned in imitation of the Babylonian god Marduk, and so on. There have been lots of attempts to reconstruct aspects of classical mythology as interpretations of astronomical phenomena, but they’re generally not very persuasive. Anyway, Greek astrology _per se_ didn’t really get going until the Hellenistic period when Greek philosophers learned a lot about Babylonian astronomical and divinatory practices, by which time the standard Greek stories about the gods were pretty firmly established. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/56 "2011-01-28T00:51:52Z")
> [@Krokodil](#): > > No. The Brontosaurus was an adult skeleton mismatched to a juvenile head, and no such creature ever thundered across the lands. The Apatosaurus correctly matched the adult body with an adult head. It’s more than just a different name or language. No. The nomenclatural problem didn’t have anything to do with a mismatch, but rather that the name _Apatosaurus_ had priority over _Brontosaurus_. _Apatosaurus_ was described in 1877 from a partial skeleton, and _Brontosaurus_ in 1879 from a more complete skeleton. When, in 1903, comparison showed the bones belonged to the same kind of animal, the rules of scientific nomenclature demanded that _Apatosaurus_ replace _Brontosaurus_. The original _Brontosaurus_ skeleton lacked a head, and when it was mounted for display in 1905, a composite skull modeled on the related genus _Camarasaurus_ was used. As it turns out, the actual _Apatosaurus_ skull is quite different. The mounted skeleton, under the name _Brontosaurus_, attracted a great deal of publicity, and the animal became known to the general public under that name. It took a long time for it to become general knowledge that the correct name was _Apatosaurus_. In my view, “brontosaurus” (lower case, and not in italics) is perfectly correct as a common name for the animal. Common names need not follow the rules of scientific nomenclature. Of course, in any technical publication _Apatosaurus_ would have to be used. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/57 "2011-01-28T01:03:42Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > IME people are more likely to see falling stars than meteors. I most often hear “shooting stars,” but yea, this. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/58 "2011-01-28T06:13:54Z")
The word auspices was derived from the Latin auspex, who were fortune tellers who watched how birds flew. ---
**Author:** ![Walther\_Ego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8dc957/32.png) [@Walther\_Ego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walther_Ego)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/59 "2011-01-28T07:48:21Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > Now that you mention it, “dinosaur” itself means “terrible lizard,” and dinosaurs were not lizards (they were essentially birds, if I may shorthand a great deal of theory into a word.) Furthermore, they were not particularly terrible. It’s just that an archeologist is more likely to stumble first into one of the few terrible than a teeny tiny one. ---
**Author:** ![groman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/73ab20/32.png) [@groman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/groman)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115/60 "2011-01-28T15:11:19Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Personally, I think that we should have three separate terms for rockballs, gasballs, and iceballs: Sure, Pluto isn’t much like Jupiter or Earth, but then, Jupiter and Earth aren’t much like each other, either. But we’re kind of stuck with “planet”, now. I know this is off topic, but your post made me wonder – where would you draw lines between rock, gas and ice in regards to planetary science? Are there already accepted definitions? To me, a logical division would be: A) Fluid outside, fluid inside B) Fluid outside, solid inside C) Solid outside, fluid inside D) Solid outside, solid inside Or **juicies** , **mushies** , **squishies** and **balls** 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-commonly-used-terms-originate-from-now-defunct-scientific-theories/569115.md?page=4)