# Any other hobby activity as deadly as climbing Everest? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 22, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396 "2016-05-22T20:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/41 "2016-05-23T20:24:55Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > Not as bad, but what about that freshwater deep cave diving? I know it’s a rare hobby, but definitely seems like something I would avoid (seriously, I get a little anxious whenever I have to put on the full chemical warfare get-up for gas hut training). I second [cave diving](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_diving) as a contender, along with [wreck diving](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wreck_diving) and [deep diving](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_diving). Just as climbing Mount Everest is an order of magnitude more difficult and dangerous than climbing smaller mountains, cave diving, wreck diving, and deep diving are similarly more difficult and dangerous than typical recreational scuba diving. In fact, one wreck in particular, that of the [SS Andrea Doria](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Andrea_Doria) is often referred to as the [“Mount Everest of scuba diving.”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Andrea_Doria#Diving_on_the_wreck_site) Something like a hundred divers or so dive the wreck every year, and to date, 16 divers have died. There are a host of additional hazards in cave and wreck diving beyond the hazards of recreational scuba diving, including issues with visibility due to lack of natural light, lack of visibility due to silt or sediment, risks of getting lost (and running out of air), risks of entrapment or entanglement, and breathing gas management. Additional hazards with deep diving include the increased risk of decompression sickness, breathing gas management (including multiple gas mixtures), nitrogen narcosis, oxygen toxicity, equipment failures due to depth, and even [high-pressure nervous syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-pressure_nervous_syndrome) for very deep dives. Incidentally, one of the tenets of both cave and wreck diving is to follow the [“rule of thirds”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thirds_%28diving%29) for breathing gas management. The rule dictates that one-third of the gas supply is planned for the outward journey, one-third is for the return journey and one-third is a safety reserve. Just as Everest climbers may endanger and sometimes lose their lives by pushing on beyond their planned turnaround time in a bid for the summit, divers in overhead environments have lost their lives by pushing on beyond their planned turnaround point, and finding out too late they did not have enough breathing gas to return (perhaps due to an additional unforeseen problem during the return). Personally, I started recreational scuba diving again last year, and have absolutely no desire to ever do any cave or wreck diving. I just think the hazards are unacceptably high. (I have no desire to ever climb Mount Everest, either, for the same reason.) ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/42 "2016-05-23T20:35:53Z")
P.S. Here is an example of a [warning sign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vortex_Spring_cave_warning_sign.jpg) that is often placed at the entrance to popular underwater caves warning those who have insufficient training not to proceed. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/43 "2016-05-23T21:03:17Z")
On some of those more dangerous mountains: If a mountain really has a 1 in 3 death rate, then only the very most dedicated climbers are going to even attempt it. And if the death rate is that high even among such dedicated climbers, then the actual risk must be very great indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/44 "2016-05-23T21:08:25Z")
Outdoor FurryFest during hunting season. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/45 "2016-05-23T21:15:30Z")
Calling your current lover by your ex-girlfriend’s name or her younger sister’s name while IN THE ACT can be pretty risky. _Ain’t I always nice to your kid sister? Don’t I take her driving every night?_ ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/46 "2016-05-23T21:15:55Z")
> [@robby](#): > > P.S. Here is an example of a [warning sign](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vortex_Spring_cave_warning_sign.jpg) that is often placed at the entrance to popular underwater caves warning those who have insufficient training not to proceed. I agree. Diving should be considered - this is the type of diving I meant…it’s definitely a hobby. No reason, really to do it except to say you have done it. [Bushman’s Cave](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boesmansgat). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/47 "2016-05-23T22:24:43Z")
This why I stick to tabletop gaming as a hobby. My group has been playing them for years and we haven’t had a death or serious injury yet. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/48 "2016-05-23T22:42:15Z")
And if you do, hey, that’s what the cleric is for. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/49 "2016-05-23T23:00:39Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > I agree. Diving should be considered - this is the type of diving I meant…it’s definitely a hobby. No reason, really to do it except to say you have done it. > > [Bushman’s Cave](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boesmansgat). Bushman’s Hole is where diver [David Shaw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Shaw_%28diver%29) famously died while trying to recover the body of another diver who had died there a decade earlier at a depth of 890 feet. Both bodies were subsequently recovered near the surface. Shaw’s video equipment was recovered with his body, including the recording of his own death. Another diver who recorded his own death is Yuri Lipski, who died at a depth of just over 300 feet diving the [Blue Hole of Dahab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Hole_%28Red_Sea%29). Shaw’s dive was meticulously planned, but he apparently died due to overbreathing his sophisticated closed circuit rebreather as a result of overexertion at extreme depth. Lipski [almost certainly] was foolishly trying to reach the bottom of the Blue Hole on a single tank of air and succumbed to nitrogen narcosis and/or oxygen toxicity. He reached the bottom, then became disoriented and started flailing. Both recordings are on YouTube. ☹ I forced myself to watch them, mainly to hammer home any lessons that might be learned from them. One thing that struck me about both recordings is how quickly they died. They each went from perfectly fine at the surface to dead in less than 10 minutes. :eek: For comparison, the maximum depth recommended for recreational scuba divers is 130 feet. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/50 "2016-05-23T23:06:39Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Presumably this is also why the Everest death rate is so low as compared to K2, Annapurna, etc., however. There’s a literal and commercial superstructure dedicated to making Everest relatively accessible, which other eight-thousanders lack. Everest is playing catch up this week. Four deaths in 4 days! > **[Four climbers dead on Everest, ‘mountain of extremes’ | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2016/05/22/asia/everest-climbing-deaths/)** > > Four have died in the span of four days on Mount Everest, including a Sherpa and two Westerners. Two other climbers are missing. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/51 "2016-05-23T23:41:53Z")
Unprotected sex with prostitutes? ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/52 "2016-05-23T23:42:38Z")
> [@naita](#): > > Well that’s why I wrote “hobby activity”. Mountain climbing is a hobby, climbing Everest is a specific activity within that hobby. Sky-diving is also a hobby, a single jump would be an activity within that hobby. > > What I was primarily interested in with the OP was to look at risk assessment. Someone deciding to do a parachute jump know that there’s a risk involved, but the risk is relatively low for each jump and accidents are mainly about human error or faulty equipment. Dying due to the stress of the experience or weather conditions is extremely rare. You can buy the experience of a tandem jump with zero experience yourself, and I expect that has a safety record even better. > > Someone deciding to join a climb to the summit of Everest know that there’s a 1 in 100 chance of dying from relatively frequent factors outside human control. > > The annual risk when BASE jumping probably comes a lot closer, there are some numbers [here](http://www.livescience.com/5350-truth-skydiving-risks.html) although they’re not precise. But the risk per jump is much lower and the psychology is quite different on some points at least. > > Now if there was a place an experienced sky-diver could by a BASE jump package with one or more jumps and a total known fatality risk of 1 in 100 I think that would be comparable. That brings up an interesting point; how are you counting it? Is per event or per duration a better measure? A trip up Everest takes weeks, including acclimatization while an individual jump is measured in minutes (even if you include time in the airplane getting to altitude). Skydivers do many jumps/day & can go on multiple days. > [@Your link](#): > > He found that the risk of death per skydive in Sweden compares roughly to the risk of a mother dying during childbirth, or close to 1-in-100,000. **However, skydivers may also typically make 10 jumps within a day, upping their accident odds.** So if one did 10 jumps a day for each day of an Everest expedition then their risk of death goes way up as they’ve done _hundreds_ of individual jumps vs. just one Everest ascent. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2016, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/53 "2016-05-23T23:58:03Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Bushman’s Hole is where diver [David Shaw](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Shaw_%28diver%29) famously died while trying to recover the body of another diver who had died there a decade earlier at a depth of 890 feet. Both bodies were subsequently recovered near the surface. Shaw’s video equipment was recovered with his body, including the recording of his own death. > > Another diver who recorded his own death is Yuri Lipski, who died at a depth of just over 300 feet diving the [Blue Hole of Dahab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Hole_%28Red_Sea%29). > > Shaw’s dive was meticulously planned, but he apparently died due to overbreathing his sophisticated closed circuit rebreather as a result of overexertion at extreme depth. > > Lipski [almost certainly] was foolishly trying to reach the bottom of the Blue Hole on a single tank of air and succumbed to nitrogen narcosis and/or oxygen toxicity. He reached the bottom, then became disoriented and started flailing. > > Both recordings are on YouTube. ☹ I forced myself to watch them, mainly to hammer home any lessons that might be learned from them. One thing that struck me about both recordings is how quickly they died. They each went from perfectly fine at the surface to dead in less than 10 minutes. :eek: > > For comparison, the maximum depth recommended for recreational scuba divers is 130 feet. I read the whole saga, I would not watch the videos. I will freely admit I don’t understand hobbies like this. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/54 "2016-05-24T00:03:25Z")
> [@robby](#): > > … > > Both recordings are on YouTube. ☹ I forced myself to watch them, mainly to hammer home any lessons that might be learned from them. One thing that struck me about both recordings is how quickly they died. They each went from perfectly fine at the surface to dead in less than 10 minutes. :eek: > > For comparison, the maximum depth recommended for recreational scuba divers is 130 feet. I’m forcing myself NOT to watch them…I have to keep telling myself “don’t look them up. do NOT go to youtube. go look for kittens instead” ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/55 "2016-05-24T00:10:45Z")
> [@robby](#): > > One thing that struck me about both recordings is how quickly they died. They each went from perfectly fine at the surface to dead in less than 10 minutes. :eek: I’m not an expert, but I don’t think that’s an unusual outcome. There’s no physiological problem with a rapid increase in pressure _per se_, it’s high absolute pressure and then rapid drop in pressure that need to be managed carefully. So they descend quickly to their target depth, spend as little time as possible there, and then take hours and hours to ascend. So if the high absolute pressure is going to get you, it will get you right at the beginning of your dive when you’re at the bottom. The accounts of Shaw’s last dive are compelling. His main dive partner almost died too, during the ascent after having dived deeper than planned in a fairly hopeless attempt to assist Shaw. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/56 "2016-05-24T01:10:36Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > I read the whole saga, I would not watch the videos. I will freely admit I don’t understand hobbies like this. Read it too. If you liked it, read Blind Descent. About finding the worlds deepest cave. That also includes diving through passages to hope to find a way through. Crazy stuff. I won’t call myself a diver. Only have a 20 or so in my log. The Blue Hole was as deep as I’ve been. 120 feet. It was a quick trip. Sharks made it interesting at our decompression stop. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/57 "2016-05-24T01:55:43Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Read it too. If you liked it, read Blind Descent. About finding the worlds deepest cave. That also includes diving through passages to hope to find a way through. Crazy stuff. > > I won’t call myself a diver. Only have a 20 or so in my log. The Blue Hole was as deep as I’ve been. 120 feet. It was a quick trip. Sharks made it interesting at our decompression stop. I will look it up, thank you! ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/58 "2016-05-24T02:22:45Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Unprotected sex with prostitutes? For males, the odds of getting HIV from unprotected vaginal sex are quite low, and at least if you have access to the right drugs it’s not fatal. The long-term fatality rates for streetwalkers in Kinshasha are probably not so good, however. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/59 "2016-05-24T02:32:53Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > The long-term fatality rates for streetwalkers in Kinshasha are probably not so good, however. In fact, their _long-term_ fatality rates are exactly the same as for celibate nuns in Kansas City. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/60 "2016-05-24T02:48:51Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > In fact, their _long-term_ fatality rates are exactly the same as for celibate nuns in Kansas City. Good joke, but no, because rate includes a time component. It may take years for the hookers to die, but they will die sooner than the nuns. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396.md?page=4)