# Any other hobby activity as deadly as climbing Everest? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 22, 2016, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396 "2016-05-22T20:28:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/61 "2016-05-24T03:01:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Good joke, but no, because rate includes a time component. It may take years for the hookers to die, but they will die sooner than the nuns. Actually I meant that the nuns are all secretly screwing the priests who just came back from a “fact-finding mission” to Kinshasa. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/62 "2016-05-24T03:32:02Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > …rate includes a time component… Incidentally, **Colibri** , as a somewhat unimportant point - this is not correct. In general, a rate is a just ratio between two quantities, the denominator need not be time. In most error rates, for example, the denominator is the number of trials; in the case of a human population, something like the literacy rate is just the proportion of the population with that property. So, technically, my joke does work - “the long-term fatality rate” can mean the proportion of the population that eventually dies, i.e. 100%. Of course, at this point it is not a _funny_ joke. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/63 "2016-05-24T04:05:28Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > For males, the odds of getting HIV from unprotected vaginal sex are quite low, and at least if you have access to the right drugs it’s not fatal. The long-term fatality rates for streetwalkers in Kinshasha are probably not so good, however. Buzzkill. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/64 "2016-05-24T04:13:07Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Incidentally, **Colibri** , as a somewhat unimportant point - this is not correct. If you must nitpick, “fatality rate” by definition includes a time component. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/65 "2016-05-24T04:54:15Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > If you must nitpick, “fatality rate” by definition includes a time component. Just to nitpick, everything past my joke was nitpicking, right? Does the ebola fatality rate have a time component? ---
**Author:** ![TommySeven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@TommySeven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TommySeven)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/66 "2016-05-24T06:39:52Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Unprotected sex with prostitutes? In sub-Saharan Africa, which is pretty close to worst case, a study found that [37% of sex workers were HIV+](http://www.avert.org/professionals/hiv-social-issues/key-affected-populations/sex-workers). Studies in low-income countries found a risk of HIV transmission of [0.38% per unprotected vaginal sex act](http://www.aidsmap.com/Estimated-risk-per-exposure/page/1324038/). So that’s 0.14% per exposure to a prostitute chosen at random, or roughly ten prostitutes per Everest (assuming HIV kills you, which again is conservative). ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/67 "2016-05-24T13:11:31Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Incidentally, **Colibri** , as a somewhat unimportant point - this is not correct. In general, a rate is a just ratio between two quantities, the denominator need not be time…in the case of a human population, something like the literacy rate is just the proportion of the population with that property… And literacy is one of those famous statistics that is famous for not being easy to meta-analyze because everyone uses a different definition of literacy. If someone can read a shopping list but can’t read USA Today, are they literate? What if they can read USA Today but can’t read the Washington Post? What about if they can read the Washington Post but not the Wall Street Journal? What if they can read the Wall Street Journal but not The Lancet? ---
**Author:** ![buddy431](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6a8cbe/32.png) [@buddy431](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddy431)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/68 "2016-05-24T19:45:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > On some of those more dangerous mountains: If a mountain really has a 1 in 3 death rate, then only the very most dedicated climbers are going to even attempt it. And if the death rate is that high even among such dedicated climbers, then the actual risk must be very great indeed. It’s one death to every three who summit. There are plenty of people who try to climb the mountain, fail and turn back, but don’t die, who aren’t included in those statistics. And in any cases, it’s unclear how much stock to put in historical death rates, as climbing has gotten safer all around. The death to summit ratio on Annapurna since 1990 is more like 20%. Also, for all the talk about how Everest is a tourist destination and whatever, it’s still relatively few people who have summited. Around 5600 according to wikipedia. Around 100 per year on average (with most of that being concentrated in more recent decades). Most of the other 8000 meter peaks are an order of magnitude less than that (Cho Oyu, generally considered the easiest of the 8000 m peaks, has had around 3100 summiters). Which I dunno, maybe that’s on par with like base jumpers or cave divers, but it’s a whole different world than just talking about skydivers or recreational scuba divers. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/69 "2016-05-24T19:49:47Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > Just to nitpick, everything past my joke was nitpicking, right? Not my comments. They were essential clarifications;) > [@](#): > > Does the ebola fatality rate have a time component? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/70 "2016-05-24T19:58:06Z")
If contracting ebola is considered a hobby, then I think Russian roulette should be too. ---
**Author:** ![Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/marvin_the_martian/32/2898_2.png) [@Marvin\_the\_Martian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marvin_the_Martian)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/71 "2016-05-24T20:27:05Z")
Certain forms of competitive freediving (the maximum depth disciplines) have got to be pretty high up there is the risk category… ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/72 "2016-05-24T21:09:43Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Not my comments. They were essential clarifications; I think, if nothing else, we can agree on this principle: (I'm sure that must predate Futurama, but I'm not sure where from.) ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/73 "2016-05-25T00:09:46Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Sharks made it interesting at our decompression stop. How so? Juggling? Ventriloquism? Comedians? > [@TommySeven](#): > > So that’s 0.14% per exposure to a prostitute chosen at random, or roughly ten prostitutes per Everest (assuming HIV kills you, which again is conservative). So if I pick up ten hookers I don’t need a passport & don’t get jetlagged but can say I climbed Mt. Everest. Whodathunkit? Thanks for fighting ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![brossa](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brossa/32/3040_2.png) [@brossa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brossa)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/74 "2016-05-25T03:46:55Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Does the ebola fatality rate have a time component? > > Yes. Well, technically the Case Fatality Rate for Ebola (or any other illness) does not have a time component, since case fatality rate is actually a measure of _risk_ rather than a true _rate_. The term ‘fatality rate’ is imprecise in that regard, but its use in the literature is widespread to represent the proportion of deaths (caused by a particular condition) within a population of patients with that condition over the course of the condition: either the condition kills you or it doesn’t. It’s expressed as a value between 0 and 1, with no time component. ---
**Author:** ![Kiber](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kiber/32/317_2.png) [@Kiber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiber)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/75 "2016-05-25T11:55:26Z")
This may violate the spirit of the op, but somewhere between 1 in 4 and 1 in 2 smokers [die from smoking](http://www.quitsmokingsupport.com/scary.htm). So if that counts as a hobby, it’s deadlier than Everest. Unless we count it on a per-cigarette basis, in which case I guess the rate drops substantially. (While it may count as a hobby, most of the responses seem limited to adventure sports - which I suspect may be what the op was getting at.) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/76 "2016-05-25T12:13:37Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > So if I pick up ten hookers I don’t need a passport & don’t get jetlagged but can say I climbed Mt. Everest. …IF you know what I mean. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/77 "2016-05-25T12:51:32Z")
> [@Kiber](#): > > This may violate the spirit of the op, but somewhere between 1 in 4 and 1 in 2 smokers [die from smoking](http://www.quitsmokingsupport.com/scary.htm). So if that counts as a hobby, it’s deadlier than Everest. Unless we count it on a per-cigarette basis, in which case I guess the rate drops substantially… Just imagine it - it’s far, far safer statistically to smoke one cigarette, or even a whole pack, than it is to make one Everest summit attempt. So next time you are in the Himalayas, just pick up a pack instead and come home safely. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/78 "2016-05-25T17:57:33Z")
If you are going to select a specific mountain, or cave out instead of the activity as a whole, then you would have to include the Isle of Man motorcycle TT 246 deaths in 100 years, it may not sound too much, until you appreciate that every single one of those riders was highly skilled, and far from the average in terms of capability on a motorcycle. > **[All you need to know about Isle of Man TT races](https://metro.co.uk/2013/05/31/isle-of-man-tt-the-worlds-most-dangerous-sporting-event-3816587/)** > > THE Isle of Man is, without doubt, the most dangerous race on the planet. When Japanese rider Yoshinari Matsushita died in an accident during qualifying session at this year's event, that brought the total death toll in its 106-year history to 240.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/columnists/article-301493/How-die.html There is an absolutely notorious youtube clip of a rider doing a circuit around the course, with a camera on the bike, a grey smudge appears briefly before the picture disappears - a grey horse had been spooked by the noise and ran out into the road. I won’t link to that but there are plenty more that are not fatal, and you do not get trivial crashes here. The official death toll is likely to be significantly lower than the true death toll, but the organisers are never going to publicise that fact. Just to finally cap it all off, believe it or not, the crashes and fatalities during the race are actually a minority of the total number of deaths from crashing bike riders on the Isle of Man. That's because when the racing is done, the route is opened up for the casual riders, these are just guys with fast bikes who want to give it the full on beans - they are not the highly skilled race riders, and the result is always predictable. These riders are the hobby riders. In this link it mentions the deaths of three spectators, in a rare event when only one race rider died > **[One rider and two spectators killed in Isle of Man TT crash](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/jun/08/markoliver)** > > Motor cycling: A rider and two spectators have been killed on the final day of the centenary Isle of Man TT races. The true number of deaths of all types related to the Isle of Man TT may well be over 1000, in fact its likely to be more than that. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/79 "2016-05-25T20:02:46Z")
That does sound bad, but you don’t mention anything about what the number of riders in the race are. Or how many ride the course outside of competition. I did a brief search, but didn’t find those numbers, the closest I got was “Up to 40,000 extra motorcycles are on the island during the TT festival.” in one of the articles, but I’m sure we can agree that wouldn’t be the correct number to divide the fatalities by. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2016, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396/80 "2016-05-25T20:23:55Z")
> [@scr4](#): > > Russian Roulette - 1 in 6 Zero. Well, close to it. The Nagant revolver used would stop on the full chamber when spun. Thus when cocked, the next chamber would be empty. Unless of course something fucked up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-other-hobby-activity-as-deadly-as-climbing-everest/755396.md?page=5)