# Any possibility the Beatles DIDN'T write their own songs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 22, 2008, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762 "2008-06-22T05:28:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mark\_Ryle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8dc957/32.png) [@Mark\_Ryle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Ryle)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2008, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/41 "2008-06-22T23:18:38Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] I dunno 'bout 4 genuises, but 1+1+1+1=something like 15, instead of 4. [/QUOTE] Lennon and McCartney, writing with sometimes more, sometimes less collaboration, did add up, mysteriously, to much more than the sum of their parts. [QUOTE=eleanorigby] Lennon and now Harrison are gone, so we will never know what they would have done with their “twilight” years. [/QUOTE] When they’re 64. [QUOTE=eleanorigby] John was the edgier one–he kept Paul from overdosing all of us on sugar … but he had his blind spots and Paul had his bull’s eyes. [/QUOTE] _Eleanor Rigby_ being one. ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/42 "2008-06-23T00:07:42Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] This kind of behavior should begin to decrease at around his 17th birthday, or when he begins to get laid. [/QUOTE] He’s 23, engaged, and gets laid on a regular basis. Given your description, _I_ would be the more likely to pull this kind of crap. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/43 "2008-06-23T12:18:44Z")
[QUOTE=Mark Ryle] Mark David Chapman thought John Lennon was a fraud. [/QUOTE] Stephen Lightfoot thinks Mark David Chapman is a fraud (WARNING: tin foil hat time). I read Cynthia Lennon’s book “Lennon.” She describes John writing his own songs. Either she is a liar, or the Beatles wrote their own stuff. I’ll got with the latter. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/44 "2008-06-23T12:50:56Z")
For about a year now, I’ve been thinking of writing a futuristic grad student thesis in which I prove that the music attributed to the Beatles was written by Elton John, because a couple of working-class guys never could have done it. The idea was inspired by my contempt for the people who insist somebody other than Shakespeare wrote Shakespeare’s plays - but I’d thought the suggestion that someone else wrote the music of the Beatles was so stupid that, even 200 years in the future, nobody would actually believe it. I’d better churn this thing out before **Soapbox Monkey** ’s friend does it in earnest. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/45 "2008-06-23T13:49:35Z")
[QUOTE=Mister Rik] Actually, he’s probably [dead](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lance_Collins#Death): [/QUOTE] Hmmm! It’s been a while since I looked up Todd info! That got past me! ---
**Author:** ![mr.jp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/48db29/32.png) [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2008, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/46 "2008-06-23T14:20:49Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] The real tragedy is that Lennon and now Harrison are gone, so we will never know what they would have done with their “twilight” years. Sadly, we know all too well what McCartney and Starr have done. [/quote] I think Flaming Pie is one of the best albums made by a man of that age. ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/47 "2008-06-24T00:12:41Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] Hmmm! It’s been a while since I looked up Todd info! That got past me! [/QUOTE] I’ll confess I only looked him up because the wording of your post suggested a whoosh. Wikipedia showed me it _wasn’t_ a whoosh 😛 ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/48 "2008-06-24T00:28:15Z")
[QUOTE=Mark Ryle] Lennon and McCartney, writing with sometimes more, sometimes less collaboration, did add up, mysteriously, to much more than the sum of their parts. [/QUOTE] Yes. I got offline last night only to find that _Help!_ was on PBS here. #2 son and I sat down to watch. The brashness, humor and sheer joy of the young Beatles made me smile. We won’t see that again–and not just because 2 of them are dead and the others senior citizens. There was an innocence about them; a naivety that the world lacks now. I think we should just be glad that the 4 of them came together at a confluence of outside events --serendipity + talent=miracle of pop/rock music. Also, they never claimed to be hard rock musicians, much as John wanted to be. The “hardest” rock they ever did was “helter skelter” and even that’s not all that hard. I appreciate their range and variety–doing pop songs about loneliness and betrayal (not romantic, I’m thinking of “She’s Leaving Home”) and fantastical underwater adventures etc. They changed the meaning of pop music (and thank god). > [@](#): > > When they’re 64. Well played, sir. > [@](#): > > _Eleanor Rigby_ being one. WHAT? Paul McCartney stole me moniker?!? The dirty rat bastard… I oughta sue. 😉 **mr. jp** –I concur. I really like his album, Flaming Pie. But that’s the only one I like. I couldn’t listen to Wings–what did they have-maybe 2 hits? I find too much Paul without at least a dash of John to be too sweet for my taste. That said, IMO, FP is his best solo album. (and he got the title from John…) ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/49 "2008-06-24T01:39:47Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] I couldn’t listen to Wings–what did they have-maybe 2 hits? [/QUOTE] Is this a whoosh? For the record, 14 Top Ten hits, five of which went to #1, and that’s only in America (where “Mull of Kintyre,” an enormous hit in the U.K., flopped). ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/50 "2008-06-24T01:56:44Z")
[QUOTE=Biffy the Elephant Shrew] Is this a whoosh? For the record, 14 Top Ten hits, five of which went to #1, and that’s only in America (where “Mull of Kintyre,” an enormous hit in the U.K., flopped). [/QUOTE] Oh, was it that many? I never liked their sound. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/51 "2008-06-24T02:22:26Z")
Sir Paul’s quality varies quite a bit IMO. My appraisal of post-Beatles McCartney, not ranked within divisions… Worthy: Say Say Say Live and Let Die Another Day My Love Listen to What the Man Said Helen Wheels Band on the Run Jet Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey Junior’s Farm Maybe I’m Amazed Unworthy: Let 'em In Silly Love Songs Ebony and Ivory C Moon Coming Up Goodnight Tonight My Brave Face Mull of Kintyre ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/52 "2008-06-24T04:35:48Z")
Just to put paid… isn’t there actual audiotape of them screwing around in the studio and writing the songs? Not to mention the original version of “Hey, Jules”. ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Ryle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8dc957/32.png) [@Mark\_Ryle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Ryle)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/53 "2008-06-24T04:38:18Z")
[QUOTE=eleanorigby] I find too much Paul without at least a dash of John to be too sweet for my taste. [/QUOTE] This is the mystery. Both John and Paul said there was, at the least, a primary writer for each song and sometimes little or no collaboration – for example _Yesterday_. John and Paul agreed before even becoming The Beatles all songs would carry “Lennon-McCartney” attribution. Paul wrote, sang, recorded _Yesterday_ alone. The other Beatles weren’t present, didn’t like it, tried to prevent its release, yet the jacket of the single (in the US) carried a picture of the group and said “The Beatles.” On the disc, _Yesterday_ by Lennon-McCartney. John had a sprinkling of interesting songs after the breakup and so did Paul. I consider John’s _#9 Dream_ a work of art, and I was glad to see _Another Day_ among **lobotomyboy63** ’s “worthy” Paul songs. It’s a little gem. But where did the energy and excitement go of even their most detached collaborations as Beatles? There was some magic happening between those two that infused a Lennon-McCartney stamp on what they wrote as Beatles, completely other than the solo John and solo Paul. Inherent in each song having a primary writer is that both John and Paul were composer/lyricist for their own creations. They were singer/songwriters before the singer/songwriter era. Yet there was that synergy that somehow turned their individual creations into Lennon-McCartney songs through and through. It wasn’t just a device or gimmick or affectation or simplification or convenience to call them Lennon-McCartney songs. They _were_ that. John started the band and he wasn’t the type to hand over authorship rights to a person who did not help write his song, yet that was the case at times. He and Paul must have sensed the uniqueness of their partnership from the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/54 "2008-06-24T04:47:35Z")
I think they balanced each other. Talking out of my ass here, but Paul was trying to make peace, to keep what was working. I watched a thing about Lennon on TV and realized how far ahead of his time he was…what people weren’t ready to accept in the 1970s have proven true. That balance worked, I think…reasonable people don’t want to get dragged down into “the sky is falling” but they don’t want either to think that everything’s perfect and can’t be improved upon. JMO. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/55 "2008-06-24T04:47:49Z")
[QUOTE=Soapbox Monkey] My friend is pretty smart, IMHO, and he’s an amazing writer and poet, and usually has very insightful observations and opinions. But he also loves to argue. For the sake of arguing. And absolutely refuses to concede in any argument. So I think this was one of those situations where he refused to accept my superior knowledge of music and tried to make me question established facts. My head hurts. ☹ [/QUOTE] Because you argue the Beatle’s wrote their own material hardly means you have superior knowedge of music. I mean, maybe you do, but this arguement has nothing to do with it. It sounds to me like the guy is jealous. He just can’t admit that a couple of guys can be SO MUCH MORE talented than him. The MUST have been cheating somehow. ---
**Author:** ![Nonsuch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nonsuch/32/2922_2.png) [@Nonsuch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nonsuch)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/56 "2008-06-24T05:29:12Z")
[QUOTE=Mark Ryle] Paul wrote, sang, recorded _Yesterday_ alone. The other Beatles weren’t present, didn’t like it, tried to prevent its release, yet the jacket of the single (in the US) carried a picture of the group and said “The Beatles.” On the disc, _Yesterday_ by Lennon-McCartney. [/QUOTE] That’s overstating it. “Yesterday” may not have been John’s cup of tea, but he had a good enough ear to recognize a great song when he heard it. If the other Beatles had disliked it that much, they wouldn’t have recorded it, or, having recorded it, would’ve quashed its release; Paul would have then simply given it to another artist. And all four Beatles were present during the recording of “Yesterday,” though not for the string overdub recorded several days later. (“I’ve Just Seen a Face” and “I’m Down” were cut at the same session with the full band.) ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/57 "2008-06-24T06:01:48Z")
[QUOTE=Mark Ryle] The word genius will never occur in a conversation about Ringo Starr. [/QUOTE] I think he’s ingenious, if that matters. I don’t think anyone else could have penned obla di obla da (life goes on), or Octopus’s Garden, or Yellow Submarine. Really John and Paul were the classical songwriters. Ringo was the driving Pop force. He was the guy that penned in the tradition of the pub storyteller, toastmaster, and limerick writer. Writing that drinking song from centuries ago, that everydody sings today. Henson Genius or Starr Genius? You be the judge. [Octopus’s Garden featuring Proto-Kermit.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9uo98lORhw) ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/58 "2008-06-24T06:09:40Z")
[QUOTE=devilsknew] I think he’s ingenious, if that matters. I don’t think anyone else could have penned obla di obla da (life goes on), or Octopus’s Garden, or Yellow Submarine. Really John and Paul were the classical songwriters. Ringo was the driving Pop force. He was the guy that penned in the tradition of the pub storyteller, toastmaster, and limerick writer. Writing that drinking song from centuries ago, that everydody sings today. Henson Genius or Starr Genius? You be the judge. [Octopus’s Garden featuring Proto-Kermit.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9uo98lORhw) [/QUOTE] Ringo didn’t write **Ob-La-Di, Ob-La Da** _or_ **Yellow Submarine**. Paul was responsible for both those songs. In fact, the first recorded Beatles song Ringo wrote was **Don’t Pass Me By** (on the White Album), which is pretty much crap (I’m sorry that I doubted you/I was so in unfair/You were in a car wreck/And you lost your hair). He didn’t even write **Octopus’s Garden** by himself–George wrote most of the music. I love Ringo and I think he contributed a lot to the band–but it wasn’t songwriting abilities. ---
**Author:** ![devilsknew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4da419/32.png) [@devilsknew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/devilsknew)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/59 "2008-06-24T06:21:49Z")
[QUOTE=pepperlandgirl] Ringo didn’t write **Ob-La-Di, Ob-La Da** _or_ **Yellow Submarine**. Paul was responsible for both those songs. In fact, the first recorded Beatles song Ringo wrote was **Don’t Pass Me By** (on the White Album), which is pretty much crap (I’m sorry that I doubted you/I was so in unfair/You were in a car wreck/And you lost your hair). He didn’t even write **Octopus’s Garden** by himself–George wrote most of the music. I love Ringo and I think he contributed a lot to the band–but it wasn’t songwriting abilities. [/QUOTE] Ignorance fought, somebody told me that Ringo wrote all of those long ago, I figured because of their sound that Ringo must have had a hand in them, judging from his solo work. …Well, I do doubt the veracity that Octopus’s Garden was a George Harrison song, though. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2008, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762/60 "2008-06-24T06:30:16Z")
It’s not credited to George, but there’s footage of him collaborating with Ringo on it during the **Let It Be** sessions. Ringo wrote the lyrics, George helped him with the music. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-possibility-the-beatles-didnt-write-their-own-songs/453762.md?page=4)