# Any Presidential Pardon Limitations? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 23, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757 "2020-12-23T17:06:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/1 "2020-12-23T17:06:02Z")
Are there any limits to how many pardons a president can make? Could a president pardon anyone he considers a loyalist regardless of whether they have ever been accused of a federal crime? Could they pardon anyone convicted of money laundering in the past 10 years if they wanted to? What are the practical, as opposed to political, limitations? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/2 "2020-12-23T17:10:15Z")
Carter issued a group pardon in 1977 to all people accused of draft dodging. This pardon applied to over thirteen thousand people. While this was a single pardon, it does seem to argue that there is no numerical limit to how many people a president can pardon. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/3 "2020-12-23T18:07:52Z")
Theoretically, the presidential pardon is unlimited, at least with respect to federal crimes, with the possible exception that the crimes must already have occurred, i.e. future criminal acts are not pardonable. Whether limitations might apply to applications never done before - presidents pardoning themselves - is unknown. Legal experts disagree, but legal experts disagree on everything. Heck, since nobody has ever tried to pardon a future crime, that might be allowable as well, although that is nowhere in any ordinary sense of the word in law. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2020, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/4 "2020-12-23T18:19:44Z")
Here’s what the Constitution says: > [@Article II Section 2](#): > > The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and **he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.** _[bolding added]_ Literally the only limit is that the President may not issue a pardon in cases of impeachment (and, of course, he can only issue pardons for federal offense). He could, if he wanted to, pardon literally every person who has ever been convicted of a federal offense. Issuing pardons for crimes that have not yet been charged, much less resulted in convictions, has always seemed to me to be beyond the scope of what a “pardon” is, but both President Ford (for Nixon) and President Carter (for draft evaders) issued such blanket pardons. As far as I know, that use of a pardon has never been tested in court, but going by that precedent, a President could in theory pardon everyone who has ever committed a federal offense, even if the offense hasn’t even been uncovered yet. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/5 "2020-12-25T01:04:57Z")
I think that, day one, Biden should issue an Executive Order which states that all of Trump’s pardons since the election should be considered revoked. Let it go to the Supreme Court. If his EO is upheld, then Trump and his cronies face full federal prosecution. If the EO is struck down, then Biden should immediately issue past-and-present pardons for the entire Biden administration, the Biden family, and the Clintons- just to point out the absurdity of the unlimited pardon power. The idea that a Presidential pardon is the ultimate get-out-of-jail free card needs to be stopped in its tracks. If a President can pardon anyone, including himself (through a last-minute VP ascendancy) then a future President should be able to revoke those pardons. This would go a long way towards curtailing the political abuses of the power. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/6 "2020-12-25T02:01:40Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > The idea that a Presidential pardon is the ultimate get-out-of-jail free card needs to be stopped in its tracks. But that’s exactly what a Presidential pardon is. Whether you like it or not, that’s exactly what the framers had in mind. To change it requires a constitutional amendment, not an executive order. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/7 "2020-12-25T03:34:35Z")
We shouldn’t enact bad laws just because Donald Trump abused our current laws. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/8 "2020-12-25T04:01:41Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > To change it requires a constitutional amendment I assumed that’s what he was getting at. If there’s bipartisan consensus that a part of the constitution needs changing because of new-found attitudes, it can happen. I personally think the best way around this solution is to no longer elect someone like Trump, and now that more people have seen what has happened, if we get stuck with another one it’s really only our own fault collectively. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/9 "2020-12-25T04:09:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > We shouldn’t enact bad laws just because Donald Trump abused our current laws. People have been complaining about the presidential pardon for a long time. More often it is used to pardon political allies or as favors than it has been used to correct a miscarriage of justice. I think that, in general, an unrestrained grant of power is a bad idea. It will be abused. The pardon is one such power. I am not suggesting that presidential pardons be removed entirely but that some curb on that power is put in place. Doubtless there are many opinions on how that could best be done out there. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/10 "2020-12-25T05:07:31Z")
Wouldn’t that count as punishing someone retroactively? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/11 "2020-12-25T05:09:12Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I am not suggesting that presidential pardons be removed entirely but that some curb on that power is put in place. Doubtless there are many opinions on how that could best be done out there. How about one simple reform. Amend the Constitution so that no President may issue a pardon on or after the last Election Day of his term in office. This would require Presidents to issue any planned pardons before Election Day and would give the voters a chance on considering them when they cast their votes. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/12 "2020-12-25T05:09:15Z")
There is talk of possible sanctions against Trump’s lawyers for some of their frivolous lawsuits. If the lawyers were held in contempt in a federal court, could Trump pardon them? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/13 "2020-12-25T06:11:17Z")
I could be wrong but I think the sanctions they are looking at is bringing them before the Bar for sanction. The president (or governor) have nothing to do with that. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/14 "2020-12-25T06:14:55Z")
Sounds like a good place to start. Although a president ending his/her second term and is not up for re-election may not give a shit. They’ve got little to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/15 "2020-12-25T08:41:29Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > If the lawyers were held in contempt in a federal court, could Trump pardon them? Yes, the president can pardon criminal contempt (punishment for past contempt) though it would probably have to be a pre-emptive pardon given the timeline involved. But I think the more likely sanctions would be things like having to pay the costs of the parties they sued. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 9:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/16 "2020-12-25T09:54:08Z")
A president can even pardon dead people, even people who died a century earlier. That has been done more than once. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/18 "2020-12-25T13:18:43Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I could be wrong but I think the sanctions they are looking at is bringing them before the Bar for sanction. The president (or governor) have nothing to do with that. Yes, those are the sanctions they are considering. I was just “what iffing” since contempt seems to be unlike any other criminal charge. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/19 "2020-12-25T15:50:36Z")
There’s historical precedence, apparently: [Grant rescinded two commutations enacted by Andrew Johnson, and his actions were upheld in federal court.](https://swampland.time.com/2008/12/25/more-on-pardons/) ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/20 "2020-12-25T16:54:39Z")
Not really. It took some digging to get at the original article ([http://www.pardonpower.com/2008/12/on-revocation-of-pardons.html](http://www.pardonpower.com/2008/12/on-revocation-of-pardons.html), found on [archive.org](http://archive.org), not available by clicking), but the facts prove to be not applicable to any current cases. > Ulysses S. Grant’s first clemency decision, on his third day in office, was to revoke two pardons granted by Andrew Johnson. Both men challenged Grant’s power to do so, and lost their case in federal court. A central passage in a judicial opinion read: > > > If the president can arrest the mission of the messenger went the messenger has departed but ten feet from the door of the presidential mansion, he can arrest such mission at any time before the messenger delivers the pardon to the warden of the prison. > The fact that “the president” - in this case - meant two different presidents (Johnson and Grant), and the fact that - in this case - the warden had actually _received_ the pardons but simply stuck them in his desk for a while, did not matter. The pardons had not actually been placed in the _hands_ of Moses and Jacob DePuy, so the two men stayed in prison and were pardoned (by Grant) later. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2020, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757/21 "2020-12-25T23:43:19Z")
As I understand it, that’s the way things like this work- if a situation isn’t exactly the same as what happened before, it goes to the Supreme Court so they can decide whether it’s applicable or not. You know, like I suggested in my first message. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-presidential-pardon-limitations/928757.md?page=2)