# Any questions for someone who works in a maximum security mental hospital? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 29, 2008, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890 "2008-11-29T05:29:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/41 "2008-11-30T19:08:33Z")
> [@neutron\_star](#): > > I hope not, because I’m still kinda pissed from about two weeks ago when I found out that **they drug test random customers** at bars in England in that country’s rapid and continuing march towards being a total police state. > > (Sorry for the hijack, OP) Cite? I have never experienced this and I live there. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/42 "2008-11-30T19:17:09Z")
Several people from England who post on the drug subforum over on Something Awful told me that. I’ll try to see if I can find something more substantial. e: First result on Google for “drug testing pubs”: [Pub customers happily line up for drug testing | Boing Boing](http://www.boingboing.net/2007/09/20/pub-customers-happil.html) ---
**Author:** ![jeredc1983](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jeredc1983](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeredc1983)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/43 "2008-11-30T19:27:43Z")
Quadrop, you are right about the steps it takes to get someone involuntary medication. Where I work at though, there are many people who are forced to take their pills, if they refuse that we must subdue them and give them a shot. It is rather sad, but very true. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/44 "2008-11-30T20:08:59Z")
> [@jeredc1983](#): > > Quadrop, you are right about the steps it takes to get someone involuntary medication. Where I work at though, there are many people who are forced to take their pills, if they refuse that we must subdue them and give them a shot. It is rather sad, but very true. Were I a judge with the relevant authority, I’d halt that as cruel and unusual. At an absolute minimum you should have to give the inmate an alternative (non-mind-altering) form of restraint as an option. IMO, having your brain chemistry modified without consent is one of the most intrusive things that can be done to you, worse than involuntary surgery, involuntary sex (rape), approaching involuntary abortion and involuntary bodily mutilation and the like. ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/45 "2008-11-30T20:37:57Z")
How did you get your job? Through the paper? ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/46 "2008-11-30T20:48:55Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > Were I a judge with the relevant authority, I’d halt that as cruel and unusual. At an absolute minimum you should have to give the inmate an alternative (non-mind-altering) form of restraint as an option. > > IMO, having your brain chemistry modified without consent is one of the most intrusive things that can be done to you, worse than involuntary surgery, involuntary sex (rape), approaching involuntary abortion and involuntary bodily mutilation and the like. Whilst this is a laudable belief in theory it’s totally impractical in reality. What should the alternative be? Apply for a court order to give an injection every time someone refuses to take their drugs orally? Depending on the situation that could lead to lasting harm or even death for the person involved. As someone who has been on the receiving end of a forcibly administered drug because I was too insane to voluntarily take the medicine needed to potentially stop me dying (I was in the middle of a manic episode and could have died from exhaustion had I not been sedated), I have no problem with the fact that it happened or the decision to do it. People who are mentally ill often are not in a position to give informed consent or even know what is in their best interests. If we were talking about someone of sound mind forcibly being given surgery to remove a tumour against their wishes you’d be entirely correct in your view. In the case of someone suffering from mental illness (who possibly doesn’t even know what’s going on) they frequently can’t make that decision and it has to be taken for them. Again, I speak from experience here, not from a philosophical position. ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/47 "2008-11-30T21:38:54Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > How did you get your job? Through the paper? Probably like this? > [@jeredc1983](#): > > The place I work almost has a mythical status in my family as well: My mom was a nurse there, my father a high ranking supervisor, my aunts/uncles also employed there – so I grew up on their stories that were very exciting and intriguing. ---
**Author:** ![by-tor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/by-tor/32/266_2.png) [@by-tor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/by-tor)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/48 "2008-11-30T21:41:55Z")
neutron star, how not why. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/49 "2008-11-30T22:11:04Z")
jeredc, when you’re out and about in the “real world” as we like to call it, do you find yourself occasionally noting behavior by others that reminds you of your patients? Do you encounter people you think should probably be checked to see if they need hospitalization? Or is there a clear, bright line between the behavior of your inmates and the behavior of “normal” folk? ---
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2008, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/50 "2008-11-30T23:39:41Z")
> [@by-tor](#): > > neutron star, how not why. “Hey Dad, any openings at work? Really? Cool, grab me an application.” Not sure how this is a tough concept. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Washoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecae2f/32.png) [@Washoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washoe)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/51 "2008-12-01T00:52:23Z")
You probably won’t know the answer to this off the top of your head, but maybe you could ask around for me. How’s the job market for pharmacy technicians in that field? Is the pharmacy in an institutional setting set up the same way as it is in an acute care facility? If so, do you guard the pharm tech when he carries his cassettes to the nurse’s station? ---
**Author:** ![Much\_poison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8491ac/32.png) [@Much\_poison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Much_poison)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/52 "2008-12-01T00:56:50Z")
Is it just me or is the question “do you guard the pharm tech when he carries his cassettes to the nurse’s station?” oddly specific? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/53 "2008-12-01T01:10:13Z")
How many of the medical staff are really tryng to heal patients, and how many just don’t care because they’re a bunch of rapists and killers? ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/54 "2008-12-01T01:12:10Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Whilst this is a laudable belief in theory it’s totally impractical in reality. What should the alternative be? Apply for a court order to give an injection every time someone refuses to take their drugs orally? Depending on the situation that could lead to lasting harm or even death for the person involved. > > As someone who has been on the receiving end of a forcibly administered drug because I was too insane to voluntarily take the medicine needed to potentially stop me dying (I was in the middle of a manic episode and could have died from exhaustion had I not been sedated), I have no problem with the fact that it happened or the decision to do it. People who are mentally ill often are not in a position to give informed consent or even know what is in their best interests. > > If we were talking about someone of sound mind forcibly being given surgery to remove a tumour against their wishes you’d be entirely correct in your view. In the case of someone suffering from mental illness (who possibly doesn’t even know what’s going on) they frequently can’t make that decision and it has to be taken for them. Again, I speak from experience here, not from a philosophical position. My opinions are voiced elsewhere, and often. I’ll refrain from hijacking the OP’s thread. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/55 "2008-12-01T01:23:25Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > How many of the medical staff are really tryng to heal patients, and how many just don’t care because they’re a bunch of rapists and killers? I suspect a greater problem is staff burnout. Some people come in thinking they can make a breakthrough with the killers and rapists. They realize they can’t, and then they feel powerless and pointless. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/56 "2008-12-01T02:32:19Z")
> [@jeredc1983](#): > > Befriending a patient is a big no-no. To be honest, however, there are patients who I respect and in a weird way consider friends; I spend more time with them than I do my girlfriend or family. To be in this place you almost have to have committed a crime. On my ward alone we have patients that are in there for a variety of charges from murder, rape, to writing bad checks. There are probably two patients who I would “hang out” with if they were on the outside on my ward. Can you tell us more about those two? Why are they in there? Why do you like 'em? Are they ever gonna get out? Edit: Thanks for all the responses, btw. Very interesting thread 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/57 "2008-12-01T02:38:00Z")
> [@neutron\_star](#): > > “Hey Dad, any openings at work? Really? Cool, grab me an application.” > > Not sure how this is a tough concept. 😕 If he’s a State employee (as I am), it doesn’t work that way. Applying for, and interviewing for State jobs can be very different experiences than in the private sector. Same for Federal jobs, from what I understand. In Wisconsin, one goes to the State employment website, looks at the jobs available and their requirements, fills out the necessary application, finds out what necessary State test(s) need to be taken, takes them, and waits. And waits. And waits. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/58 "2008-12-01T02:53:33Z")
No bullshit and no question is too far? Okay, I know this is verboten in America, but…what’s it pay? (Can you tell I’m sick of people being dodgy about this question? It’s just a frickin number, people!) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/59 "2008-12-01T03:04:14Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > No bullshit and no question is too far? Okay, I know this is verboten in America, but…what’s it pay? > > (Can you tell I’m sick of people being dodgy about this question? It’s just a frickin number, people!) As he’s a state employee, it is probably published every year. And looking up the state employment website would likely give you the starting pay. ---
**Author:** ![jeredc1983](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ed8c4c/32.png) [@jeredc1983](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jeredc1983)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2008, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890/60 "2008-12-01T06:42:26Z")
**No bullshit and no question is too far? Okay, I know this is verboten in America, but…what’s it pay?** The pay is not great, but for where I live, it is pretty good. I make around $13.99 an hour, but I work a lot, and I mean A LOT, of overtime. I have enough to be comfortable, but not content. The RN’s make a lot of money and do not really do much to earn it. $36 an hour to PRN. We also have the best benefits available in terms of insurance etc. BTW, Quadrop is right, I am a state employee. Nepotism would not have landed me the job. It may be interesting to note, but before this I was a teacher; I could not stand it. I heard the state hospital was hiring so I applied. \*\* Can you tell us more about those two? Why are they in there? Why do you like 'em? Are they ever gonna get out?\*\* One of the guys is 20 years old and just a cool all around cat. He is in there due to a suicide attempt that landed him on a 96 hour hold in a regular psychiatric hospital unit. He refused to take his medicine at this place, so was forced to take the dreaded needle; he is terrified of needles. He struck the male nurse with such force that it seriously injured the guy. The day he was admitted to our facility he was covered in blood. We listen to the same music, share the same interests; if we had met outside of there we would be friends. He has a great chance of getting out, but he has a HUGE problem with the child molestors and rapists and has no qualms fighting about it. Any women that happen to be on our ward (nurses, social workers) he watches out for; if someone grabs them or insults them he is quick to harm them. He truly is a badass, a former boxer and great athlete. He will get it out. The next guy is in there for armed robbery. He was strung out on drugs, fresh out of jail, and just out of touch. He is schizophrenic, but normal 99.9% of the time. During that .1% he is totally out of control. He will get out too if HIV doesn’t claim his life first. **How many of the medical staff are really tryng to heal patients, and how many just don’t care because they’re a bunch of rapists and killers?** “I suspect a greater problem is staff burnout. Some people come in thinking they can make a breakthrough with the killers and rapists. They realize they can’t, and then they feel powerless and pointless.” DocCathode Doc said it perfectly. We had a male RN fresh out of school come in with the idea he was going to change his small part of the world. I admired his enthusiasm, but it only lasted until he was stimied by policy, patients who can’t or don’t care, and a few punches in the face. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-questions-for-someone-who-works-in-a-maximum-security-mental-hospital/474890.md?page=4)