Yeah, I wasn’t sure of the Prius size so I was just estimating. Still, the Camry looks to get about 30 mpg hiway, so the numbers are still close.
I’ve had many opportunities to drive a Prius through my work, and have had to drive it up over the Rockies and back several times. If your mom plans to do a lot of mountain driving, I would recommend against a Prius - the mileage and performance go waaaay down when dealing with altitude and steep grades.
I’ve also driven a Civic hybrid in the same conditions, and it seems to perform a little bit better, though the mileage is still not nearly as good as non-mountain driving.
Another Prius driver here. We absolutely love the car. But it has one drawback.
If you start driving, it’s always on the electric motor. While that has more then enough horsepower to get you going, it has NOT got enough HP to set in motion any heavy cargo you may want to hang behind your car. That’s why you don’t see Priuses with trailers or trailerhooks behind them. Their HP is only used for acceleration, not for pulling stuff.
I’ve got an 08 Prius (bought it in Oct '07) and went through a Minnesota winter with it. is a screen monitor which shows how the battery charges/discharges with use and the gas engine kicks in whenever needed. Almost.
The one MAJOR drawback is that the Prius handled like shit in the snow. Plain and simple. The car is pretty light and so traction was an issue. I also got stuck in a snow bank on the way out of the driveway. Rocking the car back in forth (drive to reverse and repeat x100) took a long time and the gas engine didn’t kick in. (The battery discharged from use and I’m assuming the gas engine would kick in when it reached the bottom two bars as it’s programmed to do.)
Also note that when starting the Prius, the gas engine usually comes on with the electric engine. Why? This is to heat up the catalytic converter. (This is in the US Priuses. Japan and Europe have an EV button so you can run only on the electric for a bit if you choose). This is why the Prius’ gas mileage is not good for short trips.
I’d bet that is largely a representation of the ethos of Prius owners rather than the car itself. It’s a status car for environmentalists, and since they were willing to pay a premium to get into one they’re not likely to find anything wrong with it.
Here’s something to think about before you jump: compare fuel mileage rates with your next choice, figure out your gas consumption for the year, then take the price differential between the two cars and divide it by the price of your gas consumption. That’s how long it will take to cover the premium you paid for the Prius in gas usage.Most of what I’ve seen says it’ll take you 3-5 years to cover the premium, even at $5 a gallon gas.
This is the other thing: I do not recommend trying to go over Vail pass (or, I suppose, any mountain pass) in a blizzard in any sedan-type hybrid vehicle. Scared the crap out of me.
The one major factor missing from that equation is resale value. Comparing apples to apples, a hybrid hypothetically is going to have a better resale value should gas reach $5-7 a gallon which could be happening very soon.
I’ve gone from an average of 19-21MPG in my 06 PT Cruiser to 43-45MPG in my 08 Prius. Since I’ve had the Prius, I’ve saved about an average 161.56 gallons of gas. Gas is currently at $3.65 by my house and that’s $589.69 (at that price)in a little over 6 months. If gas goes up another $2, I’ll be saving almost $2k a year in gas. The rate of return for gas alone should be paying for the car. Also, the rate that the Cruiser was depreciating was ghastly as well as the issues I was having with it*.
- I was going to have to buy new rims and tires because the ones that came stock from Chrysler were rapidly aging areas around the tires and I was getting leaks from the valve stems. So not only did the rims have to be replaced, but probably the tires too. This is far from the apple-to-apples part, but it was the final straw when it came to me trading in my car early for the Prius.
Thanks for posting this so I don’t have to post another new Prius thread. I’d seen this in the Wiki page - that Toyota admitted that the car had serious traction problems on snow - and I was curious to hear about it first hand. That fact supported with your testimony pretty much puts the final nail in the coffin for my personal “Civic Hybrid vs. Prius Hybrid” research.
Well, that and I’d already done the same gas milage/cost calcs and couldn’t justify the car on anything more than “I want”.
Training for aftermarket service on hybrids has been available for a few years, and some of the more progressive shops have at least some capability to service them. I wouldn’t expect service costing significantly less than from a dealer as yet - that usually happens when the technology is familiar enough that the lower echelon shops can handle it.
ETA: The other side of the coin is that these cars need precious little service.
I’m getting a steady 48-49 MPG on my '08 Prius- An HG model for 23,500, if I recall correctly.
I don’t have hilly terrain and do have generally warm temperatures in my part of the country.
I looked closely at the true-cost-to-own information such as mentioned above and available at places like Edmunds, etc. The puchase for me was sealed when I qualified for the down payment assitance programs in Texas. The state contributed $3,500 to my purchase which pushed the car from a “maybe” to a “definitely” for us.
And I’m really liking that 48 MPG. I used about 18 or 19 gallons of gas in April when I would have previously use about 70 gallons.
Maybe this is why they do so well where I live. In the Bay Area, we don’t need to worry about snow, and those going to Tahoe frequently in the winter will have a 4WD RV for the frequent times the pass gets snow clogged. Also, our regular gas is almost $4 already (within a dime) so we’ve got a better payback argument than most. The #1 reason was that they let hybrids in the car pool lanes, but that’s not true anymore and I still see Priuses without the stickers.
The Bay Area is the environment designed for Priuses (Prii?). My best friend bought one 4 years ago, my mom bought one 3 years ago, my ex-wife bought one 2 years ago and my girlfriend bought one last week. Each and every one of them is batshit crazy in love with their cars.
No question, they’re made very well. They reek of quality. And the cost/benefit equation in the Bay Area (even without a commute lane sticker) is running about a year and a half of “normal” driving.
I can walk to work. Otherwise I’d be getting in line.
MY girlfriend just recently got one. I’m sure I’ve posted about it a billion times, but the car is great. It’s fun, it’s got more room than you think, and it’s pretty nifty. Hell, it’s getting 60 miles per gallon right now, so it’s all good.
They hybrid Camry is rated at 34 mpg.
If your mom can afford to hang on to her car for a few years, she might like the 200 MPG VW 1L due in 2010.
If she lives in Utah, she might want to consider a CNG as she can fill her tank for about $5.00.
One reason to not pick the Prius that no one’s mentioned: The tax credit’s going away. Hybrid buyers can get a tax credit until X number of models have been sold (at which point, the tax credit either gets drastically reduced or goes away entirely, I forget which) and the Prius is at about that point, while other hybrids still have a ways to go before they reach it. (Most companies are buying at least some of their hybrid components from Toyota, so you’re not automatically sacrificing quality by buying someone else’s car.)
Twenty miles per gallon in the Cherokee was beginning to hurt, since my three-day-per-week commute is over 200 miles per day. A couple of months ago a 2005 Prius sort of fell into my lap when my former roommate needed to sell it. When he bought it there was a six-month waiting list for base models, so he opted for one that was ‘loaded’. I bought it for a bit over half what he paid for it, and a couple thousand under Kelley Blue Book.
Since fuel is a major factor, I’ll mention it first. I usually get around 47-48 mpg. I have about 80 miles of clear sailing each way on the freeway, with about 20 miles of slower to stop-and-go traffic as I get near Seattle. I set the cruise control to 70 mph. I’ve experimented with setting the cruise control to 65 mph, which is 5 mph under the speed limit but people up here tend to drive slow anyway, and my best mileage has been 52 mpg. My worst mileage, comprising the commute plus weekend local driving, was about 46 mpg. Accuracy: the trip odometers read a couple more miles than the reading on the navigational system. I haven’t done the math using the GPS mileage vs. the fuel added at the end of the trip, but I suspect actual mileage is lower than reported.
I still occasionally reach for my keys. This is unnecessary, as the car has the Smart Key. There’s a chip in the fob (that contains an ‘emergency’ key) so all I have to do is touch the door handle to unlock the car. I don’t even have to take the Smart Key out of my pocket. Same with starting. I just get in, step on the brake, and press the Power button. The only time I use the Smart Key is when I lock the car when I get out. Very handy.
I find it to be a comfortable car. It has better leg room than the Cherokee. I’ve ridden in the back seat before, and the back seats are far superior to the Jeep’s. The ‘bar’ across the hatch takes a little getting used to, but it’s not so bad once you do. Visibility is generally good.
The ventilation system either needs improvement, or else I need to learn how to use it. The heater works great. In the Jeep I like to have the fresh air vent on with the fan on low. In the Prius it seems the fan doesn’t work unless the air conditioner is on. I can get some ventillation with the a/c off and no fan, but I’d like to have a non-processed air blower. According to the Owner’s Manual, it’s more fuel efficient to use a/c than to drive with a window open. But most of the time I like plain old fresh air. If there’s away to use the fan with fresh air and no a/c, I’d like to know it.
Navigation/Sound system. The radio is far superior to the one in the Jeep. Nine-speaker JBL system vs. – what? Four speakers in the Jeep? (And one isn’t working.) Radio reception is much better, and I can listen to stations in places where I can’t in the Jeep. I haven’t bothered to learn how to set the stations (it’s not intuitive like ‘normal’ systems), but I generally listen to NPR all the time. There’s a cassette player and a six-CD changer, but I haven’t used them. I have an iPod. The big gripe is that the system isn’t iPod-ready. I’ve looked around and found that there’s a $350 system (plus installation) that allows you to use the iPod through the multi-function screen. I’ll look into that. In the meantime I have an FM transmitter when I want to listen to the iPod. With the superior reception, it’s a little more difficult finding a free channel for the FM transmitter.
The GPS is 2D. I like the 3D displays I’ve seen on detachable GPSs, but the 2D is OK considering I don’t really use it. Basically I find out how to get to where I want to go before I go, and so I don’t need the Nav system. I did use it to get directions to the Toyota dealer for the oil change. (There’s a Places Of Interest option to find Toyota dealers.) If I didn’t know approximately where it was, I would have been lead down the garden path. It kept prompting me to get off of the freeway. Once I got to the exit I knew I wanted, the Nav system led me right to it. So far I’ve programmed my house in it in the Home button. I’ll have to learn how to use it so that I can quickly input destinations. For example, I’m not quite sure how to get to the REI store in Seattle and I have to re-learn how to get to SEA whenever I want to fly out of there. Choosing gas stations or restaurants from the POI menu would be useful on long trips. Even better would be if it had an option for rest areas.
The handling is very good. Not as good as the MGB, but far superior to the Cherokee. On a related note, I’m still getting used to not knowing where the corners are. The parking places I normally use are very tight, and I feel blind because I don’t know if I’m about to hit another car. I’ll have to develop a sight-picture for this car, since the corners aren’t visible from inside. The brakes take a little getting used to. They’re part of the regeneration system, so they’ll feel normal at first and then ‘kick in’ when you step harder.
The Jeep’s cruise control is on the steering wheel. I’ve gotten used to using my thumbs to work it. The Prius’s controls are on a short stalk. In the dark I’ve found it easy to hit the windshield wipers when I mean to use CC. The windshield wipers work differently from the Jeep too. It’s not that it’s a poor design; just different and I need to get used to it.
Acceleration is not stellar. That’s not what it was designed to do. I’m not comfortable passing people. While acceleration is an issue, the larger issue is that I bought this car to save fuel and aggressive driving burns more of it. Why pass someone when they’re just going to speed up when you come abeam of them? The places where I’d like to pass have very short passing areas. On the motorcycle I’d pass without thinking about it. In the Jeep I’d seriously consider passing slower traffic. In the Prius I don’t bother.
Cargo/storage. There are four places to stow small items in the cockpit: an upper and lower glove box, a center console, and a little niche with a tinted plastic cover below the sound system. I try not to carry too much junk, so I have not run out of room. There’s also an overhead sun glass pocket that I use. With the rear seats folded down there’s about as much floor space in the Prius as there is in the Cherokee, though the space isn’t quite as tall. I couldn’t carry some of my bulkier equipment, but it certainly has ample room for most uses. There’s a net pocket that spans the rear of the cargo area that is very useful for about three bags of groceries. It keeps them from sliding around.
Overall, I think this is a great car. More than twice the mileage of the Jeep (and five to ten mpg better than the YZF-R1), more comfortable, better handling, better sound system, nice navigation system (if I bother to use it), and generally nifty. Acceleration is adequate but not impressive. I’ve thought about battery replacement, but I’ve heard reports of good longevity. With fuel prices rising, it’s less of a concern – though I sometimes feel I’m playing the grasshopper. I’ll burn that bridge when I come to it.
Johnny L.A., you don’t need the Smart Key in your hand to lock the door. There is a small black pad on the ouside door handle that you push after you have shut to door. If your smart key is within range, the doors will lock. If the Smart Key is out of range, the pad won’t work so that a smart aleck cannot lock you out of your own car. I only need my keys now to lock or unlock my house.
I have not tried “accidentally locking my keys in the car” yet, but I don’t think the car will allow it.
I also found that holding the “mode” button for about 2-3 seconds turns the stereo off quickly, and that there is an automatic “window down” function on the driver’s door window switch- just push the button all the way down until you feel it “click” and release, and the window will roll down completely without you having to hold the button.
I’m not sure when this changed, but my '08 model has the AUX jack in the center console.
I’m also not sure if your car has it, but on the front of the center console (under the drink holders) there’s a “hidden” storage space. I keep my Windex/Armor All ready wipes in there.
Also, I’ve got storage in the trunk right above the spare tire. It’s a little bit of room, but enough to stow emergency supplies.
Nope, it will beep at me… I mean “whoever tries to do it”.
Car & Driver did a comparison review of high mileage cars back in 2004: The Frugalympics. Dumb name for an article, but there is lots of good information that I’d think anyone looking for a hybrid would be interested in.
Only if you aren’t in the US (where the Corolla is bigger than in Europe and Japan).
The Prius is three inches shorter than the '07 Corolla (175" v. 178 and a bit"); it weighs over 400lbs. more, though.
There are several drawbacks to the Prius, but probably irrelevant if you’re considering one.
- It’s pretty slow - 0-60 takes between 10 and 12 seconds, depending on who you ask. The conventional engine and electric motor don’t provide peak power or torque at the same time, which means you’re never left with no acceleration, but you’ll never get a lot of it, either.
- It’s really expensive for a Corolla/Civic/Focus-sized sedan - starts at $21,000 or so. A 2008 Corolla comes in at ~$14,500 and is better equipped (assuming you don’t count the hybrid bits and hybrid-necessitated bits such as regenerative braking, the base Prius comes with almost nothing as standard that isn’t required by law, except a stereo. You can specify heaps of options but they’ll cost you.)
- It’s not all that economical or green. The next-generation VW Jetta/Golf Diesel will be here later this year and will give you approximately the same mileage (up to 50mpg highway) and much better performance. A Honda Fit, which costs almost $7k less, gets about 8-10mpg less but is also quicker.
- Getting a bit subjective, the interior is a bit weird - the shift lever is more of a giant bubble switch, like a video game joystick.