# Any reason white men w/o college haven't shifted politically according to this poll **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 10, 2019, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010 "2019-09-10T21:28:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010/41 "2019-09-12T01:35:54Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > This only makes sense if non-college educated white men are uniquely and inherently unable to see that Trump is bad for them. What about Biden or Sanders makes them less “viable” to them than Trump? Tribal feeling. Their tribe has been voting Pub ever since the Southern Strategy worked its mischief, and now it has the force of habit. ---
**Author:** ![kirkrapine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7ea924/32.png) [@kirkrapine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kirkrapine)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010/42 "2019-09-12T01:38:42Z")
Also, even if they benefit from activist government spending themselves, it galls them to see some of the money going to help the Wrong People, which it would under Biden or Sanders. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010/43 "2019-09-12T01:47:51Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Trump is a stupid and/or poorly educated person’s idea of what a successful businessman looks like. He is also a stupid and/or poorly educated person’s idea of what a good President looks like. > > Is it any wonder that those who are stupid and/or poorly educated, and who happen to fall into Trump’s preferred racial group support him? > > FWIW, I work in an environment with a lot of blue-collar workers, and virtually all of the white men without college degrees appear to be Trump supporters. Most of them do not attempt to hide it. One lamented to me that his daughter (who just finished her Master’s degree) is a “Trump-hater,” apparently expecting me to commiserate with him. I also live in a rural town in which the majority of the population voted for Trump. I’ve had a very hard time since the election working and living with these people. It’s like a form of mass hysteria. I don’t know if they’re deluded or what it is. 😕 > > We just had a primary in Town yesterday, and one of the incumbent Selectmen who has honorably served the Town for decades failed to make it onto the ballot for the general election because he had the temerity to criticize Trump in a tweet a few months ago (in response to Trump’s racist tweets about the four Congresswomen). It’s like watching a cult persecute anyone who questions the leader. ☹ I’ve noticed the cult attitude too. My assumption is Trump is their great/last white hope to maintain white supremacy and maintain the fleeting status of being a native born, white christian male. I think everything else (morality, legality, competence, etc) goes out the window when people’s cultural identity is under threat. The one thing I can’t figure out is how orwellian the Trump cult is. Anyone who pays even the slightest bit of attention can tell Trump is dangerously incompetent, but these people think he really is a stable genius. It’d be like if huge sections of America woke up one morning and decided the sky was green and the sun was black. White women engage in identity politics too, but I’m guessing for them it’ll never be as ‘pure’ as it is for white men because women know they are secondary to men in identity politics circles. A white christian woman who was born in America can look her nose down on blacks, latinos, immigrants, muslims, atheists, gays, etc. but deep inside she knows people with those same attitudes consider women inferior to men. Maybe that has something to do with it. Maybe identity politics plays a role with women, but its not as strong since they know they are at best going to be second fiddle in an identity politics ethnostate whereas the white men still are invested in Trump’s version of America where white christian men are labeled the best, most authentic demographic in the country. ie maybe college educated whites and non college white women subscribe to white identity politics, but they half ass it while non college white men subscribe whole heartily. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010/44 "2019-09-12T01:55:12Z")
> [@kirkrapine](#): > > Also, even if they benefit from activist government spending themselves, it galls them to see some of the money going to help the Wrong People, which it would under Biden or Sanders. Yup. > **[Many Trump voters who got hurricane relief in Texas aren’t sure about helping...](https://www.chicagotribune.com/2017/10/20/many-trump-voters-who-got-hurricane-relief-in-texas-arent-sure-about-helping-puerto-rico/)** > > Sitting on Mary Maddox’s back porch, which flooded with 22 inches of water when Hurricane Harvey hit nearly two months ago, is a Lady of the Night plant from Puerto Rico that a friend gave he… Things like that are why when social security was started, it was designed to exclude black people (by not counting domestic and agricultural workers). God forbid black people benefit from the social welfare state. Supposedly the democrats tried to pass UHC in the 40s and 50s but southern democrats wouldn’t support it since it would lead to health care for black people and integrated hospitals. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010/45 "2019-09-12T02:09:51Z")
Re several of the last hypotheses - Why are these specific to NCEW **M** and not for NCEW **W**? And why did some meaningful fraction of these voters vote for Obama if those items are their primary motivations? My guess - of all demographics NCEW **M** are decreasing in the social pecking order relative to other groups the most. They are less and less often the sole or even major breadwinner in the household.They have often dropped from middle to lower middle and lower middle to lower class socioeconomically both across generations and within their own working lifetimes. More than NCEWW have, who may not be rising but aren’t dropping as much lower. Many NCEWM are moving into what they previously considered women’s jobs … and the impact on those with sexist mindsets is not surprising. That drop in status and the lack a real path back up is a real problem for them. A higher minimum wage, and affordable college are not going to solve that issue for them. So without some specific items addressed to them they need to pull someone else down below them. They are the easiest sell for resentment politics … and the sell is easiest yet when the there is no much work being done by others to sell them on a different message product. I want to be clear: I do not think that a good marketing campaign that includes them as a target demographic will win a majority of them; I do think it can move some significant number of them. Obama offered that message and won a fair number. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010/46 "2019-09-12T14:24:44Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Possibly, but college educated white men are moving away from Trump while high school educated white men are not. > > Thats my problem with a lot of these explanations. They don’t identify what is different about high school educated white men. > > People can say ‘men in general do XYZ’ which is a fair explanation but why does it only apply to high school educated men and not college educated men? Again, just a WAG, but maybe college educated men voted for Trump for “standard conservative” reasons – limited government, fiscal responsibility, conservative justices, etc. – but are smart enough to see that the man isn’t delivering (except for the justices) and is in fact a complete disaster. Whereas NCEWM voted for him out of bigotry and are thus perfectly happy with his performance. Combine that with the male stubbornness I mentioned in my earlier post, and you have the one demographic where Trump still has high approval. I realize these are gross generalizations, but we’re talking about millions of people per percentage point. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010/47 "2019-09-12T14:40:07Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Again, just a WAG, but maybe college educated men voted for Trump for “standard conservative” reasons – limited government, fiscal responsibility, conservative justices, etc. – but are smart enough to see that the man isn’t delivering (except for the justices) and is in fact a complete disaster. They were the ones expecting “the grownups” to take over, Trump to pull himself together once he realized the seriousness of the stakes, and the normal politicians to be a brake on excesses. However… temper any hope about this: this group will be susceptible to rationalize that the opponent’s platform is socialistic so they are left with no choice but Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010/48 "2019-09-12T14:51:42Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > They were the ones expecting “the grownups” to take over, Trump to pull himself together once he realized the seriousness of the stakes, and the normal politicians to be a brake on excesses. > > However… temper any hope about this: this group will be susceptible to rationalize that the opponent’s platform is socialistic so they are left with no choice but Trump. Hope tempered. But if the numbers cited in the OP are a reliable indicator, a few percentage points of this crowd may move blue, and that’s all we need. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010/49 "2019-09-12T15:30:55Z")
Also though just one poll of “generic Democrat v Trump” and not even the actual cross tabs … which for the life of me I can’t find. Several grains of salt are warranted. I can believe that Trumpism’s hostile sexism plays to his supporters among NCEWM and drives away some NCEWW, but this one poll sans details is only suggestive that it has happened. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010/50 "2019-09-28T20:06:32Z")
FWIW, according to exit polls in 2018 white men w/o college preferred the GOP candidate 66-32. > **[2018 midterms: EXIT POLLING | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/election/2018/exit-polls)** > > View CNN's 2018 election exit polls for Senate, House and governor races, including information on how different races, genders and age groups voted. For midterm election results, visit cnn.com/election. So only a 34 point margin, and smaller than the 48 point margin they gave the GOP in 2016. So if 2018 is any guide, they already did move to the left a bit. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010/51 "2019-09-29T03:13:08Z")
My hypothesis is that Trump appeals to the pro wrestling type of person which is often the NCEWM. And remember, Trump was involved with pro wrestling. With trump, you get the loud mouth ‘good’ guy who trash talks the ‘bad’ guy. In wrestling, the good guy would be bragging loudly about how he’s going to kick the bad guy’s ass. With Trump, they can express their anger about pressing 1 for English, transgender bathrooms, and Indigenous Peoples Day. ---
**Author:** ![nelliebly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nelliebly/32/5422_2.png) [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2019, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010/52 "2019-09-29T07:16:49Z")
My theory is that NCEWM voted for Trump in the first place is that he thinks (simplistic, concrete) and talks like they do. Since they identify with him so strongly, eschewing him would be like eschewing themselves. NCEWW, on the other hand, were apparently turned off by his racist attacks on The Squad, according to the[WaPo](https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/07/29/blue-collar-white-women-are-turning-trump/). Not sure why this upsets them when the “grab 'em” tape didn’t, but since they don’t identify with Trump like their male counterparts do, their support is softer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-white-men-w-o-college-havent-shifted-politically-according-to-this-poll/840010.md?page=2)