# Any reason why marijuana is still illegal? Any GOOD reason? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 13, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704 "2003-12-13T01:29:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/81 "2003-12-15T20:33:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Marley23 \* > I’m not sure what America’s international drinking status is, **We’re number 1!** **We’re number 1!** or **My country will drink your country under the table.** * * * Oh, and I’m another poster checking in to answer the OP with a simple: **no**. No good reason that it’s illegal. Threads like this make me wonder how much of a third rail this issue really is. I remember a Republican from Arizona maybe, who suggested legalization and it sparked an outrage. He only made the comments because he was not running for re-election. Does anybody have a cite to a poll on legalization of marijuana? The pro-pot bills usually seem to do good at the state level. _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/82 "2003-12-15T20:37:29Z")
Will pot legalization in Canada spur the US to take similar measures? ---
**Author:** ![vibrotronica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a9a28c/32.png) [@vibrotronica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vibrotronica)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/83 "2003-12-15T21:21:32Z")
> [@](#): > > (pot brownies anyone?) Yes, please! ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/84 "2003-12-15T22:12:16Z")
I don’t think so, **Malthus**. I don’t think it’s been legalized in Canada, just decriminalized. That’s already the case in some states here. Full legalization or decriminalization is a ways away, I think. ---
**Author:** ![II\_Gyan\_II](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/bbe5ce/32.png) [@II\_Gyan\_II](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/II_Gyan_II)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/85 "2003-12-15T22:31:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SuaSponte \* > \*\*Speaking anecdotally, I’ve seen no reduction in tobacco use by pot smokers. > \*\* That’s because they are already addicted to nicotine. Someone new to smoking may never deign to try a cigarette for a mild buzz when he can smoke a joint getting him high. The fact that nicotine is much more addictive than pot may also pull new users towards pot. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Applying common sense, considering that (a) nicotine is addictive, and (b) nicotine doesn’t impair job function and thus can be used during working hours, while pot cannot, tobacco isn’t at risk from pot. > \*\* Depends on how much you smoke. Again, the reason that people smoke cigarettes during work is because it’s become a habit and there’s craving. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Concerning alcohol, while facially it may appear to be a competing product, my anecdotal experience is that most post users also consume alcohol while toking up. > \*\* My anecdotal experience is completely the opposite. I rarely smoke any pot. But when I did, we would never mix any alcohol with it. In fact, alcohol was only consumed when pot was unavailable (happened occasionally). > [@](#): > > \*\* > Who do you think will be the primary sellers of pot once it is legalized? > Alcohol and tobacco companies. > \*\* Maybe, but that’s not the point. These companies can’t be sure what the dynamics of the atmosphere where pot is legalized will be. The short and long-term trends and market for both alcohol and cigs are established. No big company likes to stir the pot (no pun) when they’re already doing well. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/86 "2003-12-15T22:33:44Z")
Decriminalization seems like a good stepping stone to full legalization, though. Besides, as others have already pointed out, one can grow enough marijuana for a small group of people. If it’s decriminalized, that would seem to be enough of a fix. No more overcrowded prisons with personal pot users. No more wasted resources arresting and trying pot users. The criminal elements that are currently profiting from pot being illegal would continue to do so somewhat, but to a much lesser degree. I, for one, would be happy with just decriminalization. Maybe it could stop there. Just getting rid of laws making pot illegal is almost as good as passing laws making pot legal, IMHO. Plus, I don’t know if we need to have CVS and the corner store stocking Marlboro Greens anytime soon. It would just be too much in the face of the anti-drug folks who think it’s harmful. Let those that want to grow the plants and distribute small amounts of it themselves. This keeps it out of peoples faces for the time being. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/87 "2003-12-15T23:18:35Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by 'possum stalker_ > **This has got to be the closest thing to a consensus I’ve ever seen in GD.** No it isn’t! Well, we had to argue about _something._ ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/88 "2003-12-15T23:31:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mhernan \* > \*\*I want to use just marijuana as an example of a policy that extends to the creation and enforcement of a vast Controlled Substance Policy that is an extension of the American foreign policy designed as a tool used to amass and implement political controlling structures world wide. > > \ > > So just relax and inhale deeply. \*\* O.K. I usually avoid most drug legalization threads, but I just poked my head in here and found this post amazing. And then I was further amazed that nobody, but nobody seemed to question it. The illegality of certain substances is due to a worldwide conspiracy to further a totalitarian government? Ummmm, I hate to ask, but do you have a cite for this? Or any logical basis? Thanks. Fnord. ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/89 "2003-12-16T00:42:19Z")
Subway. Motorman high on marijuana. [Diaster.](http://www.chicago-l.org/mishaps/loop.html) Now what did you say about legalizing marijuana? ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/90 "2003-12-16T00:51:39Z")
As I sit here, bored as any monday, several different “ideas” come to mind. I am sure some one has discussed some of these at one point, but I want to clear the room of smoke before people continue… 1. If the government was to make pot legal, people do not have to know. We have historicaly in this country with-held information (Think the atomic bomb, truman didn’t even know its exsistence untill it was to be dropped and the American public didn’t know till much after the war… i think…). Anyways, why not legalize it… and not say anything… and then just allow whatever to happen, without any form of punishment? Beyond that, who says that the government would have to produce it? Why not just allow it to be legalized, and look around it? How hard would that be? 2. 70 odd percent supports legalization… where are the other 30 in this thread? 3. As for the actual question, the government meant to legalize pot awhile ago, but they forgot. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/91 "2003-12-16T01:07:50Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Gyan9_ > **Someone new to smoking may never deign to try a cigarette for a mild buzz when he can smoke a joint getting him high.** Indeed. On the few occasions when I’ve smoked a cigarette, my reaction was “This hurts my throat a lot more than pot, and isn’t nearly as fun.” Maybe it would’ve been different if I’d tried cigarettes first, but they just seem pointless to me. **Hamlet** , I didn’t see anything in his post about a worldwide conspiracy, just a policy that has fnord been pushed on other countries by the U.S. government. **capacitor** : First, that page gives no evidence that he was high at the time. Testing positive for marijuana only means that he used it at some point in the past few weeks (which you can assume is true of anyone who carries joints in his backpack ;)). Second, I don’t think anyone has suggested making it legal to drive cars or subway trains while high. ---
**Author:** ![Yumanite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b487fb/32.png) [@Yumanite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumanite)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/92 "2003-12-16T01:13:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capacitor \* > \*\*Subway. Motorman high on marijuana. [Diaster.](http://www.chicago-l.org/mishaps/loop.html) > > Now what did you say about legalizing marijuana? \*\* Better make [alcohol](http://www.oilspill.state.ak.us/facts/qanda.html) illegal too, then. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/93 "2003-12-16T01:25:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capacitor \* > \*\*Subway. Motorman high on marijuana. [Diaster.](http://www.chicago-l.org/mishaps/loop.html) > > Now what did you say about legalizing marijuana? \*\* Legalizing marijuana would not have anything to do with it. It would still be a crime to operate a vehicle while intoxicated on _any_ substance. Not too long ago, a teen was convicted for causing a car accident while driving under the influence of marijuana. The issue at hand was not that he was using an illegal substance, but that he was impared while driving, the same as he would have been if he had consumed alcohol (which, at his age, was also illegal.) Most employers also have rules against working while intoxicated. I doubt if this would change. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/94 "2003-12-16T01:34:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Subway. Motorman high on marijuana. Diaster. > > Now what did you say about legalizing marijuana? So no sober person has ever caused a terrible accident? [Driving while stoned](http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5450) doesn’t make one a more dangerous driver. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/95 "2003-12-16T02:13:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ekow2kn3 \* > \*\*plus, its kinda like prohibition, we’ll have speak easies for tobacco \*\* Speaking of Prohibition: Despite the fact that alcohol was completely illegal in the United States starting in 1919 – with a Constitutional amendment to back up its illegality, no less – we managed to repeal Prohibition in the 1930s. What political forces were in place in the 1930s that enabled us to repeal Prohibition then? Could those same kinds of political forces be mustered to legalize marijuana today? ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/96 "2003-12-16T02:44:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > **What political forces were in place in the 1930s that enabled us to repeal Prohibition then?** Unfortunately, the primary force was the Great Depression. As much as I’d like to see marijuana legalized, I don’t want to go _that_ route again! Other factors were: 1. The original supermajority in favor of Prohibition was a product of wartime hysteria which tended to dissipate after World War I ended. 2. Alcohol had been legal, and widely consumed, for so long that people had more of an opporunity for a before-and-after comparison. They could remember that the “before”, when alcohol was legal, wasn’t that bad, and they could see that the “after”, with bootlegger gang warfare, was horrible. Whereas, no one has any memory of marijuana being legal, so people tend to assume that the worst would happen (we’d become a nation of Cheech and Chongs) if it were. \*\* > [@](#): > > Could those same kinds of political forces be mustered to legalize marijuana today? \*\* I don’t see why not. The fact that 11 states have decriminalized is encouraging. (Until I looked it up to respond to **Lissa** ’s post above, I hadn’t thought there were more than one or two.) It will be a long slow slog. It’s hard to repeal dumb laws, but it _can_ be done. ---
**Author:** ![Lilairen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8491ac/32.png) [@Lilairen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lilairen)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/97 "2003-12-16T02:47:49Z")
kimfair wrote: > [@](#): > > I CAN think of one reason NOT mentioned yet why it won’t be legalized, though. It can’t be taxed. Yeah, there are plenty of smokers who would just run down to the nearest ganja outlet to buy their heavily taxed herb. But many more (including myself if it were legal) would just buy a grow system and grow their own. Total control of the end product, and pretty much free after an initial cash investment. Since most systems that I’ve heard being used now produce a rather large yield, everyone wouldn’t even need their own system. One guy could potentially provide enough weed for a small group of friends. Though it’s well worth noting that the fact that brewing one’s own alcohol is legal (up to, I believe, 200 gallons per year per household in the United States) does not seem to have done any significant harm to the profitability of wineries and liquor stores and, thus, their tax haul. (Home distilling is illegal in the States, but that’s still a lot of beer, wine, ale, and mead. Not to mention cordials and flavored spirits produced by getting already-distilled stuff and modifying it.) A gallon of must comes out to four and a half or five standard-sized wine bottles, depending on the sediment, for non-homebrewers who want a sense of scale on that. I don’t produce anywhere near the maximum booze output I’m permitted under the law without registering as a brewery, and I not only potentially but actually provide booze to a small group of friends. I suspect if pot were legalised the tax revenue would go up steadily, because I bet a fair number of people who are equipped to grow their own would rather put their time and energy somewhere else, or don’t find it appealing anymore without the challenge. You’ll still have hobby growers, just like you have hobby brewers, and (if the law winds up like homebrewing law) they won’t be allowed to sell their product, just give it away. Probably some of the hobby growers will produce better stuff than is easily and cheaply commercially available, too; that’s the case with brewers. But the commercial availability will mean that only people who want hands-on or really care about the intimate quality of their product or who want to do something that isn’t commonly available will get _into_ the hobby, and that’s not going to be enough to satisfy the total demand. Over time, the people who learned how to grow their own because that was the only way or who took up growing their own on principle will wind up outnumbered by the people who just go down to the corner store for their packet of weed, and eventually the grow-your-own will be the hobbyists, not the default. ---
**Author:** ![665\_aka\_The\_Semi-Christ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/2bfe46/32.png) [@665\_aka\_The\_Semi-Christ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/665_aka_The_Semi-Christ)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/98 "2003-12-16T05:03:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Thea Logica \* > \*\*[NORML’s web site](http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3475) for cites for the following… > > Marijuana is not a major road safety hazard, and is not a major factor in traffic accidents. > > So, given the scientific evidence, why are so many people, politicians in particular, against the idea of legalizing marijuana? \*\* First of all you’re entire argument is made pointless by the use of an outrageously biased source/cite. That aside, marijuana has been proven to affect both reflexes and timing when driving (and not in a good way, but instead having much the same effects that alcohol does.) As for your vaunted scientific evidence, hell I could throw out “scientific evidence” proving that humans and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/99 "2003-12-16T05:58:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 665 aka The Semi-Christ \* > **First of all you’re entire argument is made pointless by the use of an outrageously biased source/cite.** You must not have read **Thea** ’s link, because if you had, you would have noticed the extensive citing there. You don’t have to take NORML’s word for it; you can look up the documents they cited. If you refuse to believe the information simply because it’s on NORML’s web site, then _you_ are the biased one. > [@](#): > > **That aside, marijuana has been proven to affect both reflexes and timing when driving (and not in a good way, but instead having much the same effects that alcohol does.)** Do you have a cite for that ‘proof’? Perhaps you should read [**SPOOFE** ’s link](http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5450) as well. Don’t be scared by “norml” in the URL; they quote from several studies and they list their cites on that page, just like on the other one. For example: > [@](#): > > “… The impairment manifests itself mainly in the ability to maintain a lateral position on the road, but its magnitude is not exceptional in comparison with changes produced by many medicinal drugs and alcohol. Drivers under the influence of marijuana retain insight in their performance and will compensate when they can, for example, by slowing down or increasing effort. As a consequence, THC’s adverse effects on driving performance appear relatively small.” > > REFERENCE: W. Hindrik and J. Robbe and J. O’Hanlon. 1993. [Marijuana and actual driving performance](http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_driving4.shtml). Washington, DC: US Department of Transportation National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Report No. DOT HS 808 078. > [@](#): > > \*\*As for your vaunted scientific evidence, hell I could throw out “scientific evidence” proving that humans and dinosaurs walked the earth at the same time. \*\* Now that’d be interesting. Somehow, I think the evidence you threw out would be… less than scientific. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2003, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704/100 "2003-12-16T06:00:31Z")
> [@](#): > > Subway. Motorman high on marijuana. Diaster. > > Now what did you say about legalizing marijuana? People who are drunk, eating, drinking a beverage, on the phone, listening to the radio, speaking to a friend, watching road signs, on medication, suffering from illness, or 100% sober, can all cause disastrous accidents. Which is a long way of saying that’s a pretty weak argument. And anyway, your cite says this: > [@](#): > > The popular theory of what happened goes like so: the motorman, while approaching the Randolph/Wabash station, got a restrictive signal indication and the alarm in his cab went off. But, making the normal station stop, he inadvertently overrode the signal, which allowed him to proceed. He left the station and proceeded under 15 mph, which prevented the automatic braking from engaging. What happened next is open to speculation. Some say that Martin, who was known to talk to passengers (especially female ones) while motoring, was doing just that while approaching the Ravenswood train ahead and didn’t see the impending collision. When his train struck the stopped Ravenswood, it is believed that he either panicked and accidentally applied more power instead of braking or that the sheer force of the impact threw him forward and, as a result of his hand being on the Cineston controller, threw the control forward as well. > > […] > > Such an accident is unusual for a number of reasons, but especially for how such a complicated automatic signal system was unable to prevent the occurrence. It also stressed that any signal system, no matter how complex, can not prevent every circumstance and reasserted the importance of proper and thorough training. Thus, this type of incident is unlikely to be repeated any time in the future… Makes it sound like this was mostly a tragic accident of circumstance, perhaps combined with some incompetence- but not a drug thing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-reason-why-marijuana-is-still-illegal-any-good-reason/218704.md?page=6)