Any (reasonable) Theories on an Eternal Universe?

Thank you everyone for the thoughtful responses thus far. Looks like, overall, oblivion awaits me.

And given that time may be infinite, my effective conscious time finite, then effectively I don’t even exist.

And, of course, if the universe is a “once only ever forever” thing, that fades to absolute zero unrecognizeability - or else crunches - then I essentially may as well not exist now. Because nothing matters, in the end. It’s all over.

Thanks for the answers.

All right, now I’m depressed.

I think someone needs a chocolate bar. :slight_smile:

Maybe this’ll cheer you up a little, Anthracite. This is paraphrased from “Deep Time” by David Darling. If it’s any consolation, I intend to achieve immortality and ride this one out.

(My apologies to whoever on the board it was that I stole this from – I’m too lazy to search you out and properly credit you at the moment.)


Era One: Stars

1977 A.D. Voyager 2 is launched.

16,000 A.D., speed 8 miles per second. Voyager reaches the end of the Oort Cloud.

40,000 AD. Voyager passes within 1.65 light years of red dwarf Ross 248.

5 Billion A.D. Millions of microscopic craters pepper its metal frame. A ragged hole, teeming with stars, gapes in its high gain antenna. Otherwise, Voyager is intact.

8 Billion A.D. Voyager has orbited the galaxy 12 times.

20 Billion A.D. The sun is a shadowy, cystalline sphere of superthick carbon. Earth is dark, dead, frozen.

100 Billion A.D. The still shining stars in all galaxies are almost all dim red dwarfs. The universe has expanded to twice its present size.

1 Trillion A.D. Almost all stars are out.

100 trillion A.D. All stars are out. Black holes, nonluminous white dwarfs, planets, gas and dust remain. The first era of the mature universe has ended.

Era Two: The Liberation of the Planets.

The dead stars and their solar systems move at an average of 30 miles per second. Every 35 light years, on average, two stars pass close enough to perturb each other through gravity. Aproximately 100 close encounters are required to shatter a solar system entirely. Planets are ejected from their orbits or destroyed through collisions.

At some point between 1000 trillion and 100,000 trillion A.D. the second great era draws to a close. Now every world is unbound. Like their decayed parent suns, they steal along private lonely trails through galaxies cold and dark.

1 million trillion A.D. Nine tenths of the stars and planets have been ejected from the galaxies. The rest of the matter has been drawn closer to the increasing dense galactic cores.

The galaxies burst into glowing candescence, going quasar once more. Perilously close Voyager skirts to the black hole’s domain. Deak ahead–a straggling neutron star, itself already doomed. White light from the blazing necklace of the black hole dances off Voyager’s interstellar record, messages that will now never be played. Less than half the original spacecraft remains intact.

And now Voyager is upon the neutron star, banking sharply around its precipitate gravity field. Again the slingshot effect. So Voyager departs the galaxy from which it was forged, and travels into the greater void.

Era Three: Galactic Evaporation

Of the original thirty members of the Local Group of galaxies, five black holes remain, each 10 billion solar masses and a light day across.

Between 1 million trillion (10 to the 18th) and 1000 trillion trillion (10 to the 27th) A.D. all the galaxies in space have reduced themselves by cannabilism to solitary multigalactic black holes. The sole remaining member of the Local Group is a black hole a light week across.

Space is at almost absolute zero. A million light years to Voyagers starboard, a black hole glows at 1 degree above absolute zero. The protons are starting to decay. The black holes begin to evaporate by quantum tunneling.

Fourth Era: The Protons Vanish

Spring in the year 1000 million trillion trillion A.D. Supermassive black holes are the only islands, unutterably small and lonely, in a cosmos awash with electrons, positrons, photons and neutrinos. All “heavy” matter has eroded. The universe has enlarged 10,000 million trillion times since the age of man. The average distance between each electron and positron is greater than the diameter of the old Milky Way.

10 to the 32nd A.D. The electrons and positrons remain too warm to orbit each other. When they meet, they vanish in a flash of gamma rays.

10 to the 66th A.D. Single star sized black holes have evaporated.

100 billion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion A.D. A positron that came from Voyager finds a mate. The orbit of the two particles around each other is as wide as the entire twentieth century universe. They begin spiralling in towards each other.

10 to the 108th A.D. The last of the black holes evaporates.

10 to the 116th A.D. The majority of the positrons and electrons in the universe have annihilated each other.

A date unknown: The denudation of the last black hole belongs to the forgotten past. Even the final decay of the positronium sea took place lost eons ago. Now there is only blackness, ultimate cold, space without end.

And a positron, the positron from Voyager. In company with some other electrons and their antiparticles, it survived the breakup of the positronium sea. And now these last specks of matter, together with the greater legions of photons and neutrinos, are all that remains of the substance of the universe.

Fifth Era: A single, tiny crumb flakes from the first Hostess Twinkie ever made.

I’m sorry, but oblivion awaits you? Do you plan on living for 10[sup]30[/sup] years? I thought about it, but I don’t think giving up smoking will do it.

Perhaps Anthracite intends to go to HEAVEN, and spend her remaining eternity counting electrons. It’d get pretty dull if they ran out up there after only 10[sup]116[/sup] years. :wink:

If there’s a heaven, would it not be outside the observable universe, and thus not be subject to the Big Crunch or Heat Death that awaits? Surely, if your faith accepts the idea of a Creator of the Universe, your intepretation of physics must allow for Her existence. So, either you expect to persist for Eternity in Heaven and don’t have to worry about the BC or HD to come, or there’s nothing after death, and you should be more worried living for the next century, let alone a few more millions of millennia.

Of course, YMMV.

With apologies to Shalmanese and anyone else involved–I know it wasn’t meant the way I’m quoting it, but I just had to laugh . . .

Anthracite, I think you’re making the wrong comparisons. Any finite quantity is infinitely smaller than any infinite quantity, but that does not mean that all finite quantities are zero. No matter what the Universe does, it’ll still be true that you exist(ed) for somewhere in the vicinity of 10[sup]1[/sup] or 10[sup]2[/sup] years. And that’s not zero time.

I agree with brianmcc about the chocolate, by the way.

I haven’t read the SA article you mention, but from a post made by bup on another thread, I gather that they calculated the expected distance to another region identical to our “visible universe” assuming the universe is infinite in size and homogeneous overall.

If space is infinite, then the number of regions in space of some given size is countably infinite. If the number of possible “visible universes” is uncountably infinite, then it is true that the claim that there must exist other “visible universe”-sized regions identical to ours is unjustified.

However, I suspect that the number of possible “visible universes” that are at or below any given volume and mass is not only not uncountably infinite, but is in fact finite. From quantum mechanics, we know that energy levels are quantized and that there exist distances in space and time too small to be measured. If we take as given that regions which are sufficiently alike that it would be impossible to distinguish between them using instruments with the maximum possible precision are effectively identical, then calculating the number of possible regions subject to certain given limitations becomes an immensely complicated exercise in combinatorics.

Since the number of possible ways to arrange a given amount of matter in a region the size of our visible universe is finite, if the universe is infinite in size one would expect to find an infinite number of regions matching any given description. For this not to be the case would require a remarkable coincidence; it would be equivalent to an event with a finite probability never happening in an infinite series of trials.

Could you elaborate on that a little? Are you talking about the Planck units? If so, does this come from normal QM itself, or do you have to invoke string theory?

Well, not precisely. It all depends on how you view Heaven. If you view Heaven as a higher plane of existence, the way many religions do, then it is itself in a universe and will eventually expire. It’s entropy. Everything runs down.

Besides, Eternity is relative. If I’m not mistaken, it’s supposed to last until the end of time, right? Once no one is around to record time, time has ended. Or, when the universe dies, time has ended. Either way, Eternity ends sooner or later.
shakes head Huge paradox. Eternity is not eternal. Wow.