Any restaurant owners/managers here? (past or present)

[fifty-six]

Long time chef and a current restaurant owner here.

@XJETGIRLX

If they own the restaurant they don’t necessarily have to have an active hand in its operation, unless they choose to. I’m sure they can hire people with industry experience to run it. However, if they do plan to run this place by themselves with little to no outside help, I would agree they are probably in over their heads.

Restaurants have such an incredibly high rate of failure even among people with experience running them that it’s a gamble either way.

Yes! They fucking do have to have an active hand. They have no were near the money to just buy one and watch it go. The way rock stars and such do it. And I am sure they can not hire the people they need to run it of the bat. Just because many fail does not make it a gamble either way. Some people have a much much better chance at success.

@Soul_Brother_Number_Two

Renting a space that already has a pro kitchen installed and is a proven location is the way to go here.

Plus Hakuna is right, They don’t have anywhere near the cashflow they will need. Just getting that building up to code and putting in a pro kitchen could conceivably cost well more than 300 thou. They might as well burn the money up in their fireplace; they have that little chance of succeeding.

Renting a place with a kitchen already installed? Hmm… Not common. Maybe a place that was a kitchen/restaurant but forget about finding one with all the shit still there. It would probably be all picked though and shitty anyhow.

They may have enough money.

@Stana_Claus

If they can’t go the 6 months without the income, they can’t afford to start a new business; the other business will most likely appreciate the free labor; and they will get a good idea of what is actually involved in making a business like that work. Then they can decide if that’s really what they want to do.

Great to spout in a class but this shit aint for real. Real life applications don’t work like this. Yes you many not cut yourself a paycheck for some time in a new business. But you still get some perks. It is not equivalent to being unemployed. Your life becomes tax delectable. You can skim some cash, eat a bit of the profits. have the business buy your gas and whatnot. It is a super tough go running a business My wife and I have 4 most of my friends are business owners. You are forced to straight up break some rules to make things go at times. Everyone is in your pocket. Tax man, local, federal state of you have them sales tax, inspections, bookkeepers, insurance, excreta. Losing money is actually a blessing for a few years before you start giving your hard won cash to the tax men and whatnot.

And working for free. Most reputable business that you will want to learn from will not agree to that.

@pseudotriton_ruber_ruber

I can tell you that the skill of preparing food is pretty low on the list of skills a restaurant owner needs. You can pretty easily hire a talented chef, but you can’t so easily hire the management skills that you need from Day One. In addition to the organizational/planning/financial training that you need, you need really sharp people skills, as you’ll have to get along with customers, staff, suppliers, etc. most of whom will be lying to you regularly, and you have to keep them happy without showing your annoyance at near-constant barrage of bullshit you’ll need to deflect. If the husband thinks he’s a good cook, let him work as one for a while and see if this changes his ambitions any. Bad idea.

Agreed. Except for the part that You can pretty easily hire a talented chef. After you get settled in for 3-5 years and ready to take a bit of a break good I tis hard to fien GOOD help even in a saggin economy
staffing will be your largest complaint.

@Lynn_Bodoni

In this economy, I’d be very, very wary of trying to start up any new business, as FoieGrasIsEvil said, especially something that is a pure luxury.

Always be wary of starting up a new business. But that is what entrepreneurs do. They take some fucking risk.Sometimes alot. Yo have to give your fucking all. And there will AWAYS be people and economies telling you not to. No offense but in reading that short sentence I would bet that you would never start one.

@Influential_Panda

I got my friend Kevin hired, with no experience, at the restaurant where I cooked. He was all excited and told everyone he wanted to go to culinary school and open his own restaurant. The whole kitchen line started laughing and my boss said “oh, we’ll fix that.”

Yes I love this post. Seen it 1000 times myself. Love it. and the folks coming out of culinary school get hosed as well. Culinary school grads get picked on in most kitchens. The other grads don’t even stick up for them. Because they realize how little they learned about a real kitchen.

[Least_Original_User_Name_Ever]

Something that was alluded to but not outright said (as a former manager and such):

Let’s say they get everything glass-full and get the place started off. If they put up an ad for help, it’ll get stormed immediately. That’s a lot of hassle for a small organization. Also, will that help be good help? When you have 3 employees, one not showing up regularly can be crippling.

In any case, better ideas for not starting up a restaurant, especially now, have been stated.

[fifty-six]

OK now that I am done with what has been said I will give my own opinions on teh restaurant industry and owning a business.

Being chef is a glamorous job. Take a look at the reasons. It is all over TV. Hell there are even entire networks. Bookshelves full of cookbooks and great travelogues. Chefs seemto travel all over the place. And have great knowledge of the world. An anthropologist, historian, traveler, scientist. chemist, entertainer,botanist, butcher, magician. They work in dangerous environments. Handling sharp knives and while maneuvering hot dishes and a fire and ovens in a fast paced high stress small environment. Injuries are common creativity abounds. The colors and smells and exotic ingredients. The sound of beautifully selected and prepared ingredients hitting a properly heated pan. Drizzling the right amount of fragrant sauce to finish. I am getting chills right now just writing this. I am falling for my own glamorization. I often do. It is a wonderful job. I can see why people are drawn to it. And owning your own restaurant. WOW!! You get all the credit now. After all the years of hard work it is what many cooks aspire to.

Know the draw it is like gold fever. And it is so tangible, maybe more so. Hell, everyone is almost a chef. Many cook every day for family and friends. You feel only a few steps away from this glory and glamor. Even long time cooks in kitchens get the fever. I am a restaurant owner and i just gave it to myself.

That being said.
They can do this. There are a few things that all business owners must be able to do. Especially if they are under capitalized. That is make concessions and be willing to change and part with your ideal. In this situation 300k may not be alot. It can be more than enough. I started mine with 20k in credit cards. Will soon be moving in to something more like 300k soon.

I would advise them to keep looking, never stop. This down economy has some perks.
There are many properties coming up on the market. Used restaurant equipment may be plentiful. Good help could be easier to find. Being under capitalized is a great thing really. I truly believe over capitalization for a start up is a bad thing. It teaches you to be lazy. Keeping an eye on everything and busting you ass every minit of every waking hour and most sleeping hours it what it takes. Keeping tight and frugal is important.
If done right starting off under capitalized in this down economy may teach them some great business lessons real fast.

I would advise to start looking for equipment now. Get a storage space and look for the going out of business deals They will likely need the storage after the business opens anyway. I would suggest starting out with used equipment and build up from there. Start accumulation. Keep looking for better locations. Getting a job aint that bad. But most people will just tell them they are stupid. Fuck that. School wont teach much. Start looking for staff soon. Likely the largest make or break.
Start small
Start small
Start Small
40 tables may be to much to handle. I would suggest something in the 20’s you can run it with a smallish staff. And for the type of cook he is it will be more personable.
I do suggest a place a bit closer to the finished product. But if they do a fine enough job they may make a bundle on the restoration?
DO IT!!!

Normal worker “I could go bankrupt” Oh my GOD!!!
Me and other entrepreneurs I know. “I could go bankrupt” So…

I never tell someone who wants to start a business no . I just give them my best advise.
Look they dealt with t he loss of the person that passed the money down. I am sure they can handle the loss of the money.

Get an attorney and an accountant. And meat with the local SBA or SBDA or whatever local organization help new small businesses. INVALUABLE!! Usually there are free consultations on business start ups.

[elbows]

I’ve worked in restaurants most of my life. Here’s the thing about restaurants, it takes 3 simple things for a restaurant, any restaurant, to succeed; good food, good service, nice atmosphere.The only problem is that there are literally thousands of things that can go wrong, even for people with years of experience.

I think you’re about to watch these people lose their life savings, moths to a flame and all. Almost always people, without actual restaurant experience, who are drawn to owning a restaurant are drawn by the social nature of it, though often lacking the actual social skills required.

Opening your own restaurant will be incredibly stressful, require hours upon hours of labour and be an enormous crap shoot financially. Without any actual experience these people haven’t a hope, in my most humble opinion.

If I was you I’d brace myself, it’s not going to be pretty.

[fifty-six]

@elbows

I think you’re about to watch these people lose their life savings,

You mean an inheritance.

Three things.

Quality
Service
Speed

Pick two at most.

[StarvingButStrong]

Yow. Much shared wisdom, and on the whole, agreeing this ‘plan’ is unlikely to succeed.

I think the most hopeful point (in the sense of slowing things down enough to avoid disaster) was the point Hakuna Matata brought up – lack of commercial zoning. I know the area reasonably well (I used to be friends with a woman who lived on the street) and there aren’t any businesses there at all, and not on the immediately surrounding streets. As I said, just pretty nice houses on 2 acres or more, and I’d bet the owners would fight tooth and nail to keep the area residential.

Which would be a nice ‘impartial’ way to keep them from buying that building. And with that off the board, they’d have to look around, and hopefully at least end up with a location without all those drawbacks.

Lots of the other advice is great, too. If I pitch the SBA/lawyer/accountant consultations in terms of “getting off on the right foot” maybe I can sell them on the idea.

And it could even work, with major tweaks on their current plan.

I mean, it’s not totally unbelievable that they could run a successful restaurant – they’re both smart, young, energetic, and Joe really can cook. But maybe they could start with renting some location and start off with a smaller place. Get their feet wet, learn the ropes, that sort of thing. If they like the life, and do well, they can move on and up.

Even if it fails, or they decide they hate it, at least it’ll hurt a lot less than being stuck with some huge mortgage on a renovated building that might be hard to resell.

Thanks!

[Leiko]

I’ve only worked in a university food court kitchen, baked at home, read cookbooks and foody memoirs, and watched a lot of food tv (not just the Food Network) and I feel like I’d have a better chance of success at running a restaurant than they do if I had the money. I wouldn’t buy that building, to begin with: I’d start smaller, in a space that’s easier to set up, build a customer base, and then expand to the prettier but less accessible building if I could afford it and still wanted to do it.

Speaking of accessible, what are the disabled access laws for your area? The parking situation sounds a little dodgy for the ADA. (I’m assuming this building is in America since you said dollars and haven’t mentioned otherwise.)

Money for health/food safety are the two things about this situation that are bugging me the most. Cleaning products (PDF link) are not cheap and there’s a huge variety of what to buy. Depending on the laws where they’re setting up and the amount of business they expect to get, they might need to buy a commercial dishwashing machine. (I don’t cost on that, but it was enough that 6 years after buying a new one, the people who run the food court are still complaining about it.) They’ll need a freezer and a cooler, a good range, ovens, possibly a microwave, food processors, cutting boards, counter space, sinks, utensils, pots and pans (especially sheet pans), food storage containers, to say nothing of the plates and utensils for the guests, and god knows what else, and that cost builds up faster than you can say Cambros.

Do either of them have bookkeeping/accounting experience? If they don’t, you could remind them that the whole process would be easier with an accountant. Then the accountant could tell them that the money is just not enough and it wouldn’t be you having to inject reality into this pipe dream.

Finally, sitting them down and having them watch Ratatouille (yes, the movie about the rat who wants to cook) might, in some small way, help your cause. Restaurant kitchens are BUSY.

[Influential_Panda]

A mental exercise.

Think of how many shit restaurants you’ve seem survive for some unknown reason.
Now think of all the great little places you loved that closed in a year.

The secret? Food isn’t really the most important thing to a restaurant’s success.

[ivylass]

They also have to deal with health inspectors. I worked at a restaurant once where we got dinged because the crumb tray under the toaster was full. As my manager and I agreed, our toasters at home probably had full crumb trays!

Inspectors take that stuff very seriously, and if your relatives not up on all the rules and regs they may be fined or shut down.

[CairoCarol]

Get them this book:

Don’t Try This at Home. It is a collection of essays by well-known chefs about restaurant disasters they have experienced.

Not only is it a great read that will appeal to anyone interested in cooking, by the time you finish the book, you understand that there is a HUGE difference between being a good home chef and being the kind of chef that operates a restaurant. (A lot of the disasters recounted have nothing to do with cooking and everything to do with unexpected numbers of guests, inability to find the right ingredients, staff failing to show up at crucial moments, etc. etc. - all kinds of logistical problems that restaurant owners battle every day.) Since you learn indirectly while being entertained, it is painless way to gain this essential knowledge.

[Alex_Dubinsky]

@Influential_Panda

A mental exercise.

Think of how many shit restaurants you’ve seem survive for some unknown reason.
Now think of all the great little places you loved that closed in a year.

The secret? Food isn’t really the most important thing to a restaurant’s success.

Right, the trick is money laundering: Money Laundering - Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports - Straight Dope Message Board

[MsRobyn]

There’s a diner not far from me that has changed hands at least five times since it was converted from a Hardee’s several years ago. The new owners think they can make a go of it because of the car shows and the senior housing complex across the street. Except the place is too far from the fairgrounds to be convenient and not very many seniors from that complex eat out. One of these days, someone will figure out that doing the same thing over and over and over again doesn’t work, and that diner will be successful. Until then, though…

There’s another restaurant downtown that started out as a good thing, but it’s going out of business. Their hook was live music, but people would order nonalcoholic drinks and nurse them during the performance. Since little, if any, food was being sold, there was a lot of waste and no real profits to speak of.

Another wrinkle: If your relatives intend to serve alcohol, they’re going to need to find out about licensing and insurance for that, and that’s not cheap. Even if it’s BYOB, they’re going to need to find out what their liability is, and that means a consultation with a lawyer and an insurance agent.

With any luck, they’ll come to their senses or lose interest before they lose too much money.

Robin

[ZipperJJ]

Have your relatives considered catering at all? If they like cooking for people and entertaining, why not do something less “permanent” than buying and renovating a whole building?

In my experience with catering (which is more than my experience with a physical location), you get to be more creative with your menus and start with a more flexible schedule. You can start as small as you need.

They could take their money and put it in to either renting a space or getting an existing space up to code for catering.

[Joey_P]

I’m sure it’s already been mentioned, but here’s what it comes down to. If you LOVE to cook, go work at a restaurant. If you want to own a restaurant, that’s great, but plan to hire a chef and other cooks and leave them to do their job. There just isn’t enough time in the day to do both.

**Secondly. Either make them buy or buy for them the book “E-Myth Revisted” It’s a very quick and easy read and basically comes down to what I just said. **

The E-Myth Revisited: Why Most Small Businesses Don't Work and What to Do About...

Oh, and this might not be the best of times to try to open a restaurant. Especially since ALOT of vendors just changed their polices so that if you are past your terms you are completely cut off. In the past, if you were given 30 days to pay a bill, you could pay it in 60 or 90 or even longer without anyone batting an eye. Now even great customers that hit 31 days won’t get a delivery until they are caught up. That’s gonna make it really hard on someone just starting out that might need an extra week here and there to pay the bills.

[Joey_P]

@ivylass

They also have to deal with health inspectors. I worked at a restaurant once where we got dinged because the crumb tray under the toaster was full. As my manager and I agreed, our toasters at home probably had full crumb trays!

Inspectors take that stuff very seriously, and if your relatives not up on all the rules and regs they may be fined or shut down.

We’ve been dinged cuz our floors were to dirty, he wasn’t really happy when I explained to him that the food doesn’t touch the floor (at least not the stuff going out to customers).
Another business down the road from us got dinged because there was a little bit of ham on their slicer. It was the ‘butt’ piece that the slicer can’t slice anymore and it was destined for the garbage. The inspector pulled out his thermometer and it was in the danger zone so they got written up for it.

Along these lines, if they do make a go of it they really really really should plan to take a food safety class, as well as put some of their managers though it as well.
As one of the teachers said to us, don’t worry about getting someone sick or even killing them, worry about the fact that if that happens you’ll probably lose your restaurant either because of lawsuits or the media.

[Renee]

If you’ve been as brutally honest talking to them as you were in your OP, it’s no wonder they’re defensive. Not that you aren’t right, but it’s their dream, and you’re kind of trying to crush it. Careful with that.

Instead of pointing out all the problems, I’d apologize for being so negative, and to make it up to them, get them a book on how to run a successful restaurant (maybe someone here can recommend a good one). Not a “kitchen disasters” doomsday book–something that focuses on restaurants succeeding and what it takes to make that happen. Then they will have a better idea of the ins and outs of running a business like this, and maybe that will be enough to change their minds. Being excessively negative is just going to make them tune you out.

[Influential_Panda]

We got dinged on a health inspection at 10:15AM, or 45 minutes before opening. The chicken was heating up to be served, health inspector noticed that it was below temp (no shit! no one’s going to eat it yet!) and docked us five points.

[Tapioca_Dextrin]

If the OP really wants to bring home the difficulties of running a restaurant, he should to the following.

Invite yourself and six or seven friends over for dinner. As you walk in the door, inform Uncle Bob that you’re a vegetarian. And your friend Steve is Jewish, Amy is lactose intolerant and her partner must have a gluten free meal. Your other two friends ought to turn up and hour late.

This would be an incredibly mean thing to do, but it’s a little closer to running a restaurant than cooking the occasional dinner party for friends is.

[NineToTheSky]

Funnily enough Mrs Nine and I did just this twenty five years. Mrs Nine is a brilliant cook, and all our friends said she’s so good that we ought open a restaurant - so we did.

We lived through all the problems that have been listed above, so I won’t repeat them. One thing that hasn’t really been mentioned, and the OP’s friends really need to be aware of is: why should anyone go to *their *restaurant? There are a hell of a lot of restaurants out there: what will make theirs stand out? They may have the greatest restauraurant in the world, but if no-one knows about it - they ain’t going nowhere. What are they going to do about marketing and advertising? I was unpleasantly surprised at how expensive and ineffective advertising was.

What got us the publicity we needed was having a USP that got us attention. We concentrated on wine, which is obviously very complimentary to the project. I worked very hard at getting our wines noticed - to the extent that we won many awards culminating in a national wine award that got us a huge amount of free publicity. I also started selling wine retail and mail order. So, I’d suggest that the OP’s friends try and find something that will make them stand out - but not the extent that it pushes them in to too small a niche.

We also decided to be what is now called a restaurant with rooms (not too common then). That gave us another revenue stream, and a benefit that became apparent over time: if they’re staying over night, there’s no problem with drinking and driving; therefore more wine sales!

Overall though, over the years, we didn’t feel that the immense amount of time and effort was commensurate with the rewards - financial or otherwise. Also, the property market was spinningly crazily out of control, and the property became to be worth so much it was have been crazy not to sell. So we did. The property market is obviously very different now.

It was a great experience - but never again.

[MsRobyn]

@Joey_P

Along these lines, if they do make a go of it they really really really should plan to take a food safety class, as well as put some of their managers though it as well.

As one of the teachers said to us, don’t worry about getting someone sick or even killing them, worry about the fact that if that happens you’ll probably lose your restaurant either because of lawsuits or the media.

Where I live, they would have to take such a class and get that certification as part of the licensing process.

Robin