# Any rules when pluralizing a nation's populace name? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 12, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075 "2008-05-12T20:31:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/1 "2008-05-12T20:31:50Z")
I play an online game (EVE Online) and there is a bit of a disagreement on how to properly pluralize various race’s names in the game. To bring it back to earth we have: America = Americans India = Indians Spain = Spaniards Japan = Japanese Guam = Guamanians New York = New Yorkers Italy = Italians And so on. I do not know if they just choose what sounds appropriate or if there are some grammatical rules or if it changes if you are referring to the group of people who (say) inhabit Spain as opposed to people of Spanish descent and so on. Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/2 "2008-05-12T20:40:05Z")
[QUOTE=Whack-a-Mole] I play an online game (EVE Online) and there is a bit of a disagreement on how to properly pluralize various race’s names in the game. To bring it back to earth we have: America = Americans India = Indians Spain = Spaniards Japan = Japanese Guam = Guamanians New York = New Yorkers Italy = Italians And so on. I do not know if they just choose what sounds appropriate or if there are some grammatical rules or if it changes if you are referring to the group of people who (say) inhabit Spain as opposed to people of Spanish descent and so on. [/QUOTE] The words you’re talking about are called “demonyms.” English has no universal rule, no. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/3 "2008-05-12T21:06:04Z")
Let me try this: 1. Nations which end in -ia normally form a demonym in -ian, pluralized -ians. Some other nations use a similar construction: Canada \> Canadian(s); Norway \> Norwegian(s); Guam \> Guamanian(s). 2. Many European nations (and a few others) have “one-off” specialized constructions, which are usually pluralized with -s. Belgium \> Belgians, Sweden \> Swedes; Spain \> Spaniards; Greece \> Greeks. 3. Demonyms which end in -ss or -ese do not change in the plural. Swiss; Chinese; Siamese [but Thai(s)]; Javanese. These are not rules but generalizations describing common English modes of forming demonyms and their plurals. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/4 "2008-05-12T21:09:24Z")
How about people from The Ukraine? You can’t call them Ukranians, because it’s not “Ukrainia”, it’s _The_ Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/5 "2008-05-12T21:15:59Z")
I also kind of wonder about differences when referring to residents of a country versus someone descended from that country. For example: Someone who lives in Spain is a Spaniard. Someone descended from Spaniards (but lives elsewhere) is Spanish. Doubtless there are other examples but I cannot think of any at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/6 "2008-05-12T22:04:33Z")
You’d have to consider more than just nations to define the linguistic system. Liverpudlians? Mancunians? Glaswegians? And I haven’t even left Britain! ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/7 "2008-05-12T22:16:04Z")
[QUOTE=sqweels] How about people from The Ukraine? You can’t call them Ukranians, because it’s not “Ukrainia”, it’s _The_ Ukraine. [/QUOTE] Quoth the [CIA World Factbook](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/up.html) : > [@](#): > > noun: Ukrainian(s) > adjective: Ukrainian As **Polycarp** said, it’s a guideline, not a rule. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/8 "2008-05-12T22:19:21Z")
PS: Ukraine, appears to be just “Ukraine”, no definite article. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/9 "2008-05-12T22:22:09Z")
[QUOTE=sqweels] How about people from The Ukraine? You can’t call them Ukranians, because it’s not “Ukrainia”, it’s _The_ Ukraine. [/QUOTE] ‘The Ukraine’ was a diplomatic nicety in the days of the USSR. Now it’s an independent country, nice people call it ‘Ukraine’. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/10 "2008-05-12T22:24:54Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] You’d have to consider more than just nations to define the linguistic system. Liverpudlians? Mancunians? Glaswegians? And I haven’t even left Britain! [/QUOTE] Yeah, but you guys are _weird_, man. 🙂 Isn’t Ukraine, in fact, Ukrainia, in Ukrainian? I believe that using “the” in front of the name is somewhat deprecated, something to do with countries referred to with ‘the’ being lower on the totem pole than ‘real’ countries. ‘The Sudan’ and ‘The Argentine’ have fallen out of use, and ‘The Ukraine’ is falling. [The Name of Ukraine](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine). More complicated than I thought. It’s ‘Ukraina’ in Ukrainian. And I forgot about The Netherlands. Oh well. so much for the ‘The’ theory. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/11 "2008-05-12T23:09:58Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] Yeah, but you guys are _weird_, man. :)And I forgot about The Netherlands. Oh well. so much for the ‘The’ theory. [/QUOTE] Not to mention the fact that people from the Netherlands are called Dutch. So much for the “general rule” theory. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/12 "2008-05-13T00:50:57Z")
Many Ukrainians emigrated to the Prairie Provinces and became Canadians. Which of course doesn’t mean they came from 'Ukrainia" any more than they came to “Canadia.” While neither Russian nor Uktrainian have a definite article, the position of Ukraine is to strongly prefer omission of the “The” – “The Ukraine” was a region of the Russian Empire, described as such as being an outlying area from a Russocentric viewpoint. Omission of the article changes the focus from a Russocentric descriptive term to an old word adopted as national name. Besides, I said, “Some other nations use a similar construction” and gave Canada as my first example. **Colibri** buys his groceries from Panamanians, but he certainly doesn’t live in Panamania. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/13 "2008-05-13T12:37:12Z")
Reminds me of an old one-liner: “I know a little Italian. His name is Mario, and he’s about this big.” [Rimshot](http://faultgame.com/images/rimshot.wav) ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/14 "2008-05-13T20:06:38Z")
The Delaweenians don’t stand a chance. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/15 "2008-05-13T21:17:37Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] And I forgot about The Netherlands. Oh well. so much for the ‘The’ theory. [/QUOTE] Actually I think that adds weight to your theory - after all, countries don’t get much [lower](http://www.dreamstime.com/below-sea-level---dutch-dykes-image825078) than the Netherlands. In a purely geological sense, of course. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/16 "2008-05-13T22:18:33Z")
[QUOTE=HeyHomie] Reminds me of an old one-liner: “I know a little Italian. His name is Mario, and he’s about this big.” [Rimshot](http://faultgame.com/images/rimshot.wav) [/QUOTE] During the Cold War, when Czechoslovakia was dominated by the Soviet Union, a midget employed as a performer by the Bohemian Circus decided that anything was worth it to gain his freedom. Slipping across the border into West Germany, he went to the first house he came to and asked, “Can you cache a small Czech?” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2008, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/any-rules-when-pluralizing-a-nations-populace-name/449075/17 "2008-05-13T22:36:37Z")
[QUOTE=Sunspace] ‘The Sudan’ and ‘The Argentine’ have fallen out of use, and ‘The Ukraine’ is falling. [/QUOTE] ‘The Argentine’ meaning a person from Argentina still seems to have common currency, as evidenced by the 2008 movie of the same name with Benicio del Toro as Chez Guevara.